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Old 02-28-2011, 07:38 PM   #11
SpanishCastleAle
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What ions do we need that are not sufficient? I was under the impression it was only Calcium and that there was sufficient Magnesium in malt and we don't really need any of the others other than trace amounts of some; such as zinc. Are there no trace amounts of zinc in malt?

In any case, if 100% RO plus Calcium is not sufficient; 90% RO plus 10% tap water plus Calcium should be. The implication in the water primer sticky is; "get everything really low, then add some Calcium back in". Usually the 'get everything really low' is a byproduct of reducing alkalinity but the only addition is Calcium (chloride or sulphate but not carbonate).


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Old 02-28-2011, 07:42 PM   #12
scottland
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http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/bre...primer-198460/

Ajdelange has discussed this ad nauseum. It's so cheap and easy to add minerals back to your water. Spend $2 on gypsum and CaC03, and follow Ajdelange's baselines.



 
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Old 02-28-2011, 08:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottland View Post
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/bre...primer-198460/

Ajdelange has discussed this ad nauseum. It's so cheap and easy to add minerals back to your water. Spend $2 on gypsum and CaC03, and follow Ajdelange's baselines.
I think you mean CaCl, it's the main addition suggested in the primer, aj usually doesn't advocate using chalk. And the only reason we're adding CaCl is for the Calcium, the chloride is just sort of 'along for the ride'. No Magnesium additions, etc.
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:23 PM   #14
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I wanted to add that not all RO water is equal. There are cheap, single stage RO systems and there are spendy, multi-stage systems.

'real' RO water is so stripped of minerals it actually does a poor job of supporting life.

Many of the 'grocery store' RO water units don't have frequent filter changes, and thus won't be truly pure. Not saying the water is bad, but it probably isn't the ultra pure 'true RO/DI' water that needs to be reconstituted with some minerals and buffers.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:40 AM   #15
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OK, I know I'll feel stupid after getting an answer, because it's probably so easy it's ridiculous, but...

I know what DI water is, but WTF is 'RO' water?

I deal with flipping acronyms all day and just cant muster the brain power to figure out RO right now! Or maybe its this delicious Drop Top clone I brewed 4 weeks ago that I'm now drinking!

 
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:39 AM   #16
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Sorry, water treatment is my professional business and reverse osmosis (RO) water is never completely devoid of all ions. The rejection ratio of RO membranes vary based on their intended usage and the type of ions in the raw water. Since RO membranes have tiny pores that limit the passage of ions that are larger than the pore diameter, the larger the ion the better it is rejected from the product water. It turns out that monovalent ions such as sodium, potassium, chloride are smaller in diameter and they pass through the membrane into the product water at a higher rate than the larger divalent ions such as calcium, magnesium, and sulfate. The concentration of ions that make through the membrane into the product water is proportional to the concentration in the raw water.

So if you have a bunch of calcium or sodium in your raw water, you will end up with some of those ions in the product water. In the large municipal and industrial systems I deal with, they do have multiple membrane stages so that you do end up with much lower ion concentrations in the product water. Fortunately for most home systems, they are single stage membranes that typically reject 90 to 98 percent of the ions from the raw water.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:40 AM   #17
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DI deionized
RO reverse osmosis

 
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:21 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpanishCastleAle View Post
I think you mean CaCl, it's the main addition suggested in the primer, aj usually doesn't advocate using chalk. And the only reason we're adding CaCl is for the Calcium, the chloride is just sort of 'along for the ride'. No Magnesium additions, etc.
Sorry, that's what I meant

 
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photopilot View Post
DI deionized
RO reverse osmosis
I should'a known. See now I feel dumb, or maybe smarter now knowing what it means.

 
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malkore View Post
Many of the 'grocery store' RO water units don't have frequent filter changes, and thus won't be truly pure. Not saying the water is bad, but it probably isn't the ultra pure 'true RO/DI' water that needs to be reconstituted with some minerals and buffers.
The grocery store RO unit I get my water from has a little display that says when it was last 'serviced' and it's always either that day or the day before. I've always sort of thought; "Yea, right and I have a bridge in Brooklyn..." According to the flow diagragm on the front it has two RO filters plus some carbon/UV. I wonder what they consider 'service'?

mabrungard,
is the RO water profile in Bru'N Water an average based on 'middle of the road' feed water at some certain rejection? I've always sort of wondered what is actually in the RO water from the grocery store machine.


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