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Old 03-31-2012, 09:45 PM   #41
GordonT
 
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Nov 2010
Victoria, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akavango View Post
Gordon,
Have you put this tip into practice? If so how did it turn out?
By doing it this way, you OG would not be representative, how would you go about measuring the ABV?
Its very easy to calculate how much a lb. of sugar adds to a particular volume of beer. John Palmer for instance has a guide on his site that tells you exactly how much 1 lb. will add to 5 gal. of wort. Extrapolate from there, or do the calculations yourself, to however much you add and to your existing volume.

My addition added just over 10 points.

 
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:57 AM   #42
LeFreek
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Jul 2011
Almelo, Netherlands
Posts: 24
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GordonT,

Thanks for your excellent work on this clone recipe. I plan to brew my first Karmeliet clone in the next couple of months. I brew tripels appr. once a year, e.g. a Westmalle clone.

I share your experience with adding sugar near the end of primary fermentation, but don't think that it always gets you a lower FG compared with adding the sugar during boiling of the wort. It does, however, reduce the risk of yeast "becoming lazy" and not reaching minimum FG, which is a good enough reason for me to do it (exploding bottles and such).

I am translating your recipe to the European situation, and have some questions:
  • How did you come up with the original version of the recipe? I understand malt/ wheat/ oats (it's written on the bottle), and Hallertau hops, but how did you come up with the rest? Just your palate?
  • You write that you do not have the setup to handle unmalted wheat. What do you do with the oats then?
  • Re yeast: Wyeast 1214 is Chimay and Belgian Ardennes may or not be La Chouffe. Neither is the yeast straing used by Bosteels for Karmeliet and Kwak. We used to be able - at least in Europe - to start from Karmeliet bottle yeast, but today bottles are clear. Any suggestions on how to approach the original?

Bij voorbaat dank, Freek

 
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:33 PM   #43
GordonT
 
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Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFreek View Post
GordonT,

I am translating your recipe to the European situation, and have some questions:
  • How did you come up with the original version of the recipe? I understand malt/ wheat/ oats (it's written on the bottle), and Hallertau hops, but how did you come up with the rest? Just your palate?
  • You write that you do not have the setup to handle unmalted wheat. What do you do with the oats then?
  • Re yeast: Wyeast 1214 is Chimay and Belgian Ardennes may or not be La Chouffe. Neither is the yeast straing used by Bosteels for Karmeliet and Kwak. We used to be able - at least in Europe - to start from Karmeliet bottle yeast, but today bottles are clear. Any suggestions on how to approach the original?

Bij voorbaat dank, Freek
Thanks Freek, my usual method of working on a clone is to do a lot of research which mostly involves drinking , oh and reading and comparing notes with other brewers also.

I made this clone several times and didn't get very close until I retasted and tinkered with the yeast, the malt... well just about everything changed a little. My main source of information about the beer was from tasting and from reading reviews and other clone attempts. Combing that with what my taste told me was in there brought me to this version. The most difficult part to figure out was that there is a very nice honey taste in the beer accompanied by a great floral bouquet. Honey taste and feel usually comes from Crystal malt but in this case it had to be a combination of the oats, for silkiness, and the other malts.

The bouquet has to be based on the finishing hops but none of the information said much about finishing hops. I decided I would try to have the herbs marry with the hops and see if that would create the floralness this has. I also thought that the clarity and 'cleaness' in the taste would help and that is mostly down to the yeast.

This beer is pretty close to the original. Tasting side by side it is not exact but close enough for me and all the flavour points are there.

Oats I just add to the mash. Never had a stuck mash or any problems with converting them.

The Belgian Ardennes is probably not the correct yeast but as that is not available, it is close enough for me. I often try given recipes with a different yeast just to see how things change. I'm not too worried about being exactly correct, just relaxing and having fun with my hobby.

Cheers
Gord

 
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:56 AM   #44
LeFreek
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Jul 2011
Almelo, Netherlands
Posts: 24
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Gordon,

Thanks for your reply. As I said, excellent work which I am going to benefit from. I will keep you posted on my results.

For the yeast I will follow your approach, or maybe I will check if Bosteels ist still producing a bottle conditioned beer and hope/check if it is the primary strain.

What is your opinion on Belgian Ardennes being the yeast used by La Chouffe?

Regards, Freek

 
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:21 PM   #45
GordonT
 
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Nov 2010
Victoria, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFreek View Post
Gordon,

Thanks for your reply. As I said, excellent work which I am going to benefit from. I will keep you posted on my results.

For the yeast I will follow your approach, or maybe I will check if Bosteels ist still producing a bottle conditioned beer and hope/check if it is the primary strain.

What is your opinion on Belgian Ardennes being the yeast used by La Chouffe?

Regards, Freek
If Wyeast says that it is then we'll just have to trust them on that. In the past I fermented with what I dug out of the bottom of a bottle of La Chouffe. I had better luck with the Wyeast.

Cheers,
Gord

 
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Old 04-22-2012, 04:40 PM   #46
Ben6L6
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Oct 2011
Boston, MA
Posts: 15

I brewed this last night for my first All Grain. It was a lot of fun, couldn't have gone better. Thanks for the recipe.

 
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Old 06-10-2012, 09:00 AM   #47
masqualero
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May 2012
vancouver, bc
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Gordon,

What temperature do you use for the secondary fermentation stage of this beer?

I've had this in primary at 75ish for 4 days now and it's looking beautiful! Lots of activity.
I'm just curious what temps you used for secondary, because I've read a lot of Belgian tripel recipes that call for 2 weeks primary in mid-high 70's, then cold crash secondary for 3 weeks.

Your feedback would be appreciated, I'm just a pebble skip away from you,
Cheers,
Scott

 
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:58 AM   #48
GordonT
 
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Nov 2010
Victoria, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masqualero View Post
Gordon,

What temperature do you use for the secondary fermentation stage of this beer?

I've had this in primary at 75ish for 4 days now and it's looking beautiful! Lots of activity.
I'm just curious what temps you used for secondary, because I've read a lot of Belgian tripel recipes that call for 2 weeks primary in mid-high 70's, then cold crash secondary for 3 weeks.

Your feedback would be appreciated, I'm just a pebble skip away from you,
Cheers,
Scott
My secondary is usually room temperature which for you and i is probably high 50s, low 60s. I always leave it in primary until all activity is finished and the airlock is popping less than once every 10 seconds.

I don't have the facility to cold crash so I just leave it until it is clear, keg and refrigerat. I guess you could call that the cold crash stage but by that time we're usually drinking it. Its a great beer when young, different but still great with some age.
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Old 07-27-2012, 06:03 AM   #49
Suilesre
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Nov 2011
Sacramento, California
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Brewing this tomorrow with WLP500. Major props for all the leg work and research. I've added my sugars to the primary in past batches without issue but might try it in the boil for this batch.

 
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:52 PM   #50
ido50
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Oct 2011
Tel Aviv, Israel
Posts: 85
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Got this in primary just 24 hours ago. Brewed it a week ago (I'm doing no-chill). Since we don't have liquid yeast here I decided to try a 2.5 gallon batch of this with Safale T-58. I hope the spicy nature of this yeast will compliment this beer and not the opposite. Krausen dropped about an hour ago (fast), so I added the sugar just now. Here's a pic from a few hours ago, before the Krausen dropped.
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