Ventilation - Home Brew Forums
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > DIY Projects > Brew Stands > Ventilation

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-18-2011, 12:31 AM   #1
GRHunter
Recipes 
 
Jan 2010
Michigan
Posts: 564
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts



I want to brew using propane in my basement and I need to know what is the best way to vent out carbon monoxide? I know that restaurants run huge numbers of natural gas appliances and no dies. So venting carbon monoxide must be possible, I just haven't found any reasonably priced systems to do it. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


__________________
Brewing beer is a fun and rewarding hobby. When you do good, you get beer. When you do bad, you get beer.
It's a lot like recreation league softball.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 12:46 AM   #2
Senior_Beer
Recipes 
 
Jan 2011
Prairieville, LA
Posts: 13

If your comfortable losing whatever little heat is down there you could pull air in through a window using box fan blowing in and a second box fan blowing out of another window on the opposite wall. Total bill would be under $30-40. I am by no means an expert though as i live in the deep south about a sea level which keeps me from having a basement. But I am cheap and would try this before spending a lot of money venting system



 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 01:54 AM   #3
PurpleJeepXJ
Ah... Leafy Goodness
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
PurpleJeepXJ's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Dec 2010
Acworth, Georgia
Posts: 586
Liked 25 Times on 11 Posts


The box fan idea would work but a window may be a little high meaning that CO is heavier than air and sinks... The bottom 3' of your basement could be deadly CO. Vent in through a window and out through a door.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 10:26 AM   #4
trigger
Recipes 
 
Aug 2010
portland
Posts: 629
Liked 7 Times on 7 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleJeepXJ View Post
The box fan idea would work but a window may be a little high meaning that CO is heavier than air and sinks... The bottom 3' of your basement could be deadly CO. Vent in through a window and out through a door.
Uh, CO is about 28 DA, whereas N2, O2, and CO2 are about 28 Da, 32 Da, and 46 Da respectively. Under standard conditions the density of CO is about 1.25 g*L-1, whereas N2, O2 and CO2 are 1.25 g*L-1, 1.43 g*L-1, and 1.98 g*L-1. So no, carbon monoxide is not more dense than air. Add to that the fact that carbon monoxide produced will be at a higher temperature than the surrounding air and that it will be caught in convection currents moving upward and it is inaccurate to say that the carbon monoxide will sink.

That being said, there is a reason that restaurants use updraft hoods. I would not recommend the two box fan idea, as you could still accumulate significant concentrations of dangerous gasses, CO being only one of them, if your airflow is not properly designed. If you are intent on using gas indoors you should consult an engineer. Remember that your one, two, or three banjo burners are cranking out a lot of gas. Whether it burns up or not it's at the least displacing oxygen and is not something that's worth experimenting with.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 12:39 PM   #5
Senior_Beer
Recipes 
 
Jan 2011
Prairieville, LA
Posts: 13

Trigger you sound like you know more than me about this but I have to think that two fans exchanging fresh air would out pace burners, especially if placed on opposite walls or corners. Fans would pull fresh air in while across the room another would push air and gasses out. The updraft currents would help dilute the gasses and fans would pull and push them away from the operator. Some paint booths use the method to clear out paint spray. But once again I am not the subject matter expert and this is only my $.02. I would ask the professionals before trying it out.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 06:11 PM   #6
RegionalChaos
Recipes 
 
Jan 2008
Drain, OR
Posts: 605
Liked 7 Times on 6 Posts


Propane is heavier then air. Most folks will tell you to avoid using propane in a basement.
__________________
How I brew: Stir plate starters, Extract, Full boil in a Keggle, 10 gallon batches.
Brewing upgrades in progress: temp controlled ferment, stir plate re-work, building mash tun, milling station

Planned House Ales: an Amber, an IPA, a dark IPA, a Mango Ale, a blueberry oatmeal stout, a dry Irish stout, a honey wheat, Apfelwien

What kind of R-Value does your ferm chamber need? - http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/what...hamber-190459/

 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 08:16 PM   #7
Rondacker
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
 
Rondacker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Dec 2010
Great Sacandaga Lake, New York
Posts: 238
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by trigger View Post
Uh, CO is about 28 DA, whereas N2, O2, and CO2 are about 28 Da, 32 Da, and 46 Da respectively. Under standard conditions the density of CO is about 1.25 g*L-1, whereas N2, O2 and CO2 are 1.25 g*L-1, 1.43 g*L-1, and 1.98 g*L-1. So no, carbon monoxide is not more dense than air. Add to that the fact that carbon monoxide produced will be at a higher temperature than the surrounding air and that it will be caught in convection currents moving upward and it is inaccurate to say that the carbon monoxide will sink.

That being said, there is a reason that restaurants use updraft hoods. I would not recommend the two box fan idea, as you could still accumulate significant concentrations of dangerous gasses, CO being only one of them, if your airflow is not properly designed. If you are intent on using gas indoors you should consult an engineer. Remember that your one, two, or three banjo burners are cranking out a lot of gas. Whether it burns up or not it's at the least displacing oxygen and is not something that's worth experimenting with.
+1
I have 20+ years in industrial HVAC systems automation..Large burners need to have combustion air calculated and then supplied at or very near the burner. This would be in addition to ventilation of moisture produced.
As was said, not worth the risk. Get an engineer.


__________________
My Basement E-brewery;http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=268759
On Deck= Stone Ruination Clone
Secondary= Nate's Citrus Bomb
Kegged= Neapolitan Stout

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ventilation Help sjlammer Brew Stands 11 12-02-2009 02:03 AM
Keezer ventilation question bzomerlei Kegerators & Keezers 8 03-20-2009 01:41 PM


Forum Jump