BYO Pliny the Elder Clone = Hop Extract - Home Brew Forums
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Old 02-14-2011, 07:35 PM   #1
tallpaul07
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Feb 2011
Indianapolis, IN
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I just racked my Pliny the Elder clone that I got from the BYO magazine, (10 oz of hops during a 90 min boil) and tasted some of it.... wow.... I think I could bottle this up and sell it as hop extract. Has anyone else experienced this? Then I added 7 oz of dry hops for my 5 gallon brew!

Don't get me wrong, I haven't found a beer that is too hoppy. Just wondered what others thought, because this is often dubbed "Best beer I've ever made" and I can't imagine that too many people share my taste for over hopped weapons of hopstruction .

 
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Old 02-14-2011, 08:04 PM   #2
stevo155
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Jun 2008
Derry, NH
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I made the All Grain version from the recipe that Vinnie published. Due to my brewing incompetence, I don't think it was "Pliny" but it was still pretty good. Have yet to taste the real thing.
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Old 02-14-2011, 08:18 PM   #3
smears
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Sep 2010
Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 78

Never had this beer either, but I've lusted for it. You got an extract recipe for it?

 
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Old 02-14-2011, 08:42 PM   #4
bierhaus15
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Aug 2008
, New York
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This is the recipe Vinnie gave out for cloning the elder. For anyone looking for it.
HOMEBREWING PLINY THE ELDER
8 Gallon Gross Kettle Volume / 5 Net Gallons Post Fermentation

O.G. - 1.070
T.G. - 1.011
BU's - 90-95 (actual/not calculated)
ABV - 8-8.5%
Mash Rest - 151-152
Boil Time - 90 min.
SRM - 7ish
California Ale Yeast

MALT BILL
87% 2-Row Malt
4% Crystal 45 Malt
4% Carapils (Dextrin) Malt
5% Dextrose Sugar

HOP BILL
3.50 oz CTZ 13.90% A.A. 90 min.
.75 oz CTZ 13.90% A.A. 45 min.
1.00 oz Simcoe 12.30% A.A. 30 min.
1.00 oz Centennial 8.00% A.A. 0 min.
2.50 oz Simcoe 12.30% A.A. 0 min.
1.00 oz CTZ 13.90% A.A. Dry Hop (12 to 14 Days Total)
1.00 oz Centennial 9.10% A.A. Dry Hop (12 to 14 Days Total)
1.00 oz Simcoe 12.30% A.A. Dry Hop (12 to 14 Days Total)
.25 oz CTZ 13.90% A.A. Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)
.25 oz Centennial 9.10% A.A. Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)
.25 oz Simcoe 12.30% A.A. Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry

 
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:03 PM   #5
smears
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Sep 2010
Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 78

That seems intense. I'm kind of a newbie though, any tips on converting that to extract? I've got a home brewing store about 2 miles from me, and if I knew what all to buy I could just go get the stuff there.

 
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:25 PM   #6
Oldsock
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Sep 2007
DC, Washington DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smears View Post
That seems intense. I'm kind of a newbie though, any tips on converting that to extract? I've got a home brewing store about 2 miles from me, and if I knew what all to buy I could just go get the stuff there.
You could use pale DME to replace the pale malt, and then steep the sepcialty grains. It would take something like 9 lbs of DME to replace the gravity.

That said, if you can't do a full boil I wouldn't try the recipe as is. With a partial boil you won't be able to get the high level of bitterness this beer requires (even with late extract additions). The issue is that isomerization tops out ~100 IBUs, so if you finish with 2.5 gallons the most bitterness you can get is ~50 IBUs. One work around would be to do two brews with half the malt/hops in each, and combine in the fermenter.
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:28 PM   #7
SumnerH
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Feb 2009
Alexandria, VA, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smears View Post
That seems intense. I'm kind of a newbie though, any tips on converting that to extract? I've got a home brewing store about 2 miles from me, and if I knew what all to buy I could just go get the stuff there.
You can drop the carapils, DME usually includes it (Briess brand does for sure). Do the biggest boil you can (you can get away with a 4 gallon boil in a 5 gallon pot with some care, watch out for boilovers--adding a few drops of Fermcap S to the boil can help), and bump the first 3 hops additions slightly as noted.

Simplified Pliny extract + steeping grains recipe:
Steep 8oz of Crystal 45 in a bag for 30 minutes @ 155F, remove and drain, then do your normal boil routine (but for 90 minutes, not 60) with 7 lbs 8 oz light DME + 7 oz of corn sugar (dextrose).

Hop schedule:
4.0 oz CTZ 13.90% A.A. 90 min.
1.0 oz CTZ 13.90% A.A. 45 min.
1.25 oz Simcoe 12.30% A.A. 30 min.
1.00 oz Centennial 8.00% A.A. 0 min.
2.50 oz Simcoe 12.30% A.A. 0 min.

Chill and pitch California Ale Yeast (e.g. US-05, WLP001, Wyeast 1056)

After primary is done, dry hop:
1.00 oz CTZ 13.90% A.A. Dry Hop (12 to 14 Days Total)
1.00 oz Centennial 9.10% A.A. Dry Hop (12 to 14 Days Total)
1.00 oz Simcoe 12.30% A.A. Dry Hop (12 to 14 Days Total)
.25 oz CTZ 13.90% A.A. Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)
.25 oz Centennial 9.10% A.A. Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)
.25 oz Simcoe 12.30% A.A. Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry)
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:32 PM   #8
SumnerH
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Feb 2009
Alexandria, VA, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldsock View Post
You could use pale DME to replace the pale malt, and then steep the sepcialty grains. It would take something like 9 lbs of DME to replace the gravity.

That said, if you can't do a full boil I wouldn't try the recipe as is. With a partial boil you won't be able to get the high level of bitterness this beer requires (even with late extract additions). The issue is that isomerization tops out ~100 IBUs, so if you finish with 2.5 gallons the most bitterness you can get is ~50 IBUs. One work around would be to do two brews with half the malt/hops in each, and combine in the fermenter.
Split batch is another good approach, or just do a smaller batch--if you've got the pot for it, a 3.5-4 gallon batch isn't that bad.

Do you have any links for the bolded part? It's one of those things that I've heard bandied about a lot but never seen the actual study or data to support it (there's definitely some saturation point, but I've never seen it pinned down precisely where it is).
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On deck: Little Bo Pils, Bretta Off Dead (Brett pale)
Secondary: Oude Bruin, Red Sky at Morning (Sour brown ale)
On tap: Saison Duphunk (sour), Amarillo Slim (IPA), Earl White (ginger/bergamot wit)
Bottled: Number 8 (Belgian Strong Dark Ale), Eternale (Barleywine), Ancho Villa (Ancho/pasilla/chocolate/cinnamon RIS), Oak smoked porter (1/2 maple bourbon oaked, 1/2 apple brandy oaked)

 
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:44 PM   #9
smears
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Sep 2010
Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 78

You guys are awesome. Right now I've got ingredients for 3 more batches, and both my carboy and fermenting bucket are full for at least another 2 weeks.

I'm puttin this one in the queue. Thanks!

 
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:22 AM   #10
Oldsock
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Sep 2007
DC, Washington DC
Posts: 3,231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SumnerH View Post
Split batch is another good approach, or just do a smaller batch--if you've got the pot for it, a 3.5-4 gallon batch isn't that bad.

Do you have any links for the bolded part? It's one of those things that I've heard bandied about a lot but never seen the actual study or data to support it (there's definitely some saturation point, but I've never seen it pinned down precisely where it is).
In Brewing Classic Styles Jamil says the limit is "reportedly 100 to 120" but that isn't exactly a firm number, and neither is Mosher's "the wort won't absorb much more than 100 IBUs of bitterness" in Radical Brewing. Sadly I didn't see any mention of a limit from Palmer/Daniels/Fix.

From a practical stand point I heard an interview with Vinnie where he said despite the huge hop additions in PtE (300+ theoretical IBUs), labs come back with only ~80 IBUs. I've also never heard of a beer actually lab testing at over 100 IBUs.
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