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Old 07-17-2013, 12:45 AM   #61
eastoak
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Originally Posted by Matteo57 View Post
When you add oak into these beers, do you let the oak sit in water or beer or whatever for a week or two before putting it into the secondary for... the duration of the secondary aging process? How long do you leave the oak in there? I'm thinking of using american or french oak cubes.
Thanks!
If I used WLP530 and WLP001 in primary then racked to secondary onto rosalare... how different would the two versions be?
i put some red wine in a mason jar along with oak cubes then put it in a pressure cooker until it got to max pressure for a minute. i vented the cooker, got it open, screwed the lid shut and let it sit on the counter for a couple of weeks. this killed any weird bugs that may have been in the wood and pushed the wine deep into the wood. i dropped the chunks into the better bottle (after the ropey phase had cleared up), they have been in there for 3+ months and the sour tastes fantastic so far.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:21 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by eastoak View Post
i put some red wine in a mason jar along with oak cubes then put it in a pressure cooker until it got to max pressure for a minute. i vented the cooker, got it open, screwed the lid shut and let it sit on the counter for a couple of weeks. this killed any weird bugs that may have been in the wood and pushed the wine deep into the wood. i dropped the chunks into the better bottle (after the ropey phase had cleared up), they have been in there for 3+ months and the sour tastes fantastic so far.
Sounds like a good idea to me!
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Old 09-20-2013, 01:58 AM   #63
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When i punch this into Beersmith my og comes to 1.073 at 70% efficiency without the maltodextrin added. Your Og is only 1.060. Is anyone else getting a difference?



Nevermind. I had it set for 5 gallons instead of 6

Last edited by Brewing_on_the_Internet; 09-20-2013 at 04:06 AM. Reason: error in calc
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:13 PM   #64
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Just started a 60 gallon Lambic Solera aimed at an RGC clone. From what I've read the Roeselare is the key to the tart cherry flavor. Below are the recipe details I used (probably a bit lighter than a true Flanders Red but I can adjust that with some Special B on Year 2). The entire batch will remain in a 60 gallon conical fermenter for the duration. Each year I will dump the yeast trap / trub catcher (4700 ml in volume), siphon off 15 gallons and add 15 fresh gallons. By year 3 it should be an amazing blend!

The 15 "Year 1" gallons will be put on 2lbs/gallon of fruit for 6 additional months and then kegged/force carbonated. I will add oak cubes to half of it (figuring it will take four 5 gallon carboys with the fruit taken into account). I'm going to prepare the cubes like eastoak mentioned to weaken the new oak flavor, control the bugz and add the wine tint.

Fred's Sour Lambic

Straight (Unblended) Lambic (17 D)

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 16.00 gal
Boil Size: 20.68 gal
Boil Time: 90 min

Equipment: Stainless Kegs (15 Gal/37.8 L) - All Grain
Efficiency: 62.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 65.9 %


Ingredients

Amt Name Type # %/IBU

25 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 58.1 %
10 lbs Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 23.3 %
6 lbs Munich Malt (6.0 SRM) Grain 3 14.0 %
2 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.7 %
2.50 oz Saaz [3.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 10.5 IBUs


Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.062 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.019 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.7 %
Bitterness: 10.5 IBUs
Est Color: 6.5 SRM

Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out
Sparge Water: 12.40 gal
Sparge Temperature: 190.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE


Total Grain Weight: 43 lbs
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps

Name Description Step Temperature Step Time

Mash In Add 61.75 qt of water at 166.7 F 156.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 12.40 gal water at 190.0 F
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
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Old 03-25-2014, 05:06 AM   #65
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I just brewed this today but just used a packet of us-05 and all the white labs bugs they had at the brew store: B. clausenii, B. lambicus, B. bruxellensis and B. bruxellensis trois. My concern is that the second runnings (with s-33) are bubbling up a storm, but the carboy with all the bugs and us-05 is completely still. Both yeasts were pitched @ 80 degrees farenheit. Am I just being paranoid?
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Old 03-25-2014, 06:07 PM   #66
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I just brewed this today but just used a packet of us-05 and all the white labs bugs they had at the brew store: B. clausenii, B. lambicus, B. bruxellensis and B. bruxellensis trois. My concern is that the second runnings (with s-33) are bubbling up a storm, but the carboy with all the bugs and us-05 is completely still. Both yeasts were pitched @ 80 degrees farenheit. Am I just being paranoid?
yes.
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Old 01-06-2015, 04:55 PM   #67
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I've been researching sours for a while now and came across a process for souring your wort before the boil by chilling your mash to under 90, pitching your bugs, and keeping in a carboy as warm as possible. The author claimed it soured extremely fast and the boil kills off the bugs so you don't have to worry about contaminating your equipment. I will try to dig back up the article so I can link it here but I was wondering if anyone has tried this and what your results where.

I'm not looking to rush a Flanders Red or Brown. But I would say its could be a great way to dial in on the tartness of the batch.

Thoughts, suggestions, and feedback welcome.
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Old 01-06-2015, 04:58 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by PBeach80 View Post
I've been researching sours for a while now and came across a process for souring your wort before the boil by chilling your mash to under 90, pitching your bugs, and keeping in a carboy as warm as possible. The author claimed it soured extremely fast and the boil kills off the bugs so you don't have to worry about contaminating your equipment. I will try to dig back up the article so I can link it here but I was wondering if anyone has tried this and what your results where.

I'm not looking to rush a Flanders Red or Brown. But I would say its could be a great way to dial in on the tartness of the batch.

Thoughts, suggestions, and feedback welcome.
That is how a sour mash is done. Perhaps this is what you're referring to?

EDIT: I have done a 48 hour sour mash using 20% of the grainbill for a saison and the result (so far) has been very good. I actually kept my sour mash between 112-120F for the 2 days with minimal oxygen exposure (co2 purging) to ensure quick lactic (smooth) souring with minimal butyric (vomit) acid development. It was then added to the brewday mash prior to lautering, after which the boil proceeded as normal. At this point, it's still in a carboy aging but I've sampled a couple times and it's super tasty. Last sample was prior to some wine barrel oak and brett was added so I suspect it's changed a fair amount by now.
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Old 01-06-2015, 05:11 PM   #69
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Now that you mentioned Sour mashing I do believe that is exactly what it was about. The article went on to say it eliminates the need to rack sours for extended periods of time and still get a great result.

I was surprised not to have seen any mention of it throughout this thread. Is there a downside to sour mashing, I would imagine if you can cut your process down from 1-3 years to 1-2 months it would have come up more.
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Old 01-06-2015, 05:27 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by PBeach80 View Post
Now that you mentioned Sour mashing I do believe that is exactly what it was about. The article went on to say it eliminates the need to rack sours for extended periods of time and still get a great result.

I was surprised not to have seen any mention of it throughout this thread. Is there a downside to sour mashing, I would imagine if you can cut your process down from 1-3 years to 1-2 months it would have come up more.
There are many aspects of sour beers that cannot be replicated by sour mashing alone; specifically, pedio and brett characteristics (and probably some others too). Once you boil a sour mash, the "wild" microbes are killed leaving the character of the beer as-is unless you later reintroduce other living microbes. Additionally, it's hard to specify how a boiled sour mash beer might differ from a post-boil lacto soured beer, but there MUST be some discernible difference.

I do believe that lacto sour mashing may be an easier and less-prone-to-error method of souring a beer using lactic acid then the traditional post-boil method while still allowing you to hop your beer enough to provide safety from other unwanted lactobacilli microbes (and eliminating the potential for contaminated equipment). Pedio and Brett microbes can always be reintroduced post-boil/chill/ferment to continue the true wild aging processes of a traditional sour beer if one wishes to do so.

I think what I'm getting at is that sour mashing is a tool to keep your arsenal for those times when it's useful, but the traditional post-boil sour method has it's place as well.

As for recreating a Rodenbach, I haven't the faintest idea. Without having the Rodenbach brewery to mash, boil, ferment, sour and blend (I believe Rodenbach is blended) at then we are all just approximating the beer style.
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