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Old 01-28-2011, 07:51 PM   #1
jalgayer
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What does everyone think about using those water cooler style bottle s for a sour? I know they say not to for beer but would they be ok for sours?


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Old 01-28-2011, 09:57 PM   #2
jessup
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if it's not a better-bottle then i would be reluctant to use one at all! according to the sour beer geek bible, page 220, HDPE (high density polyethylene) buckets allow over 415 times more O2 based on the units of cc/L/yr. that means okay for primary and short term but not secondary unless you really like vinegar. a lot


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set I: Pale (3) -> Mild (4-5) -> amber / Victory (20-25) -> special roast (40-50) -> brown (70)
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Old 01-28-2011, 09:59 PM   #3
jessup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jalgayer View Post
I know they say not to for beer but would they be ok for sours?
you should reverse this way of thinking altogether. you should ask yourself, "just because it's okay for regular beers, is it okay for a sour?"
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set I: Pale (3) -> Mild (4-5) -> amber / Victory (20-25) -> special roast (40-50) -> brown (70)
set II: pilsner (2) -> Vienna (3-4) -> Munich (8-10) -> dark Munich (20) -> aromatic / melanoiden (25-30)
encore: smoked (5)

 
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:25 PM   #4
jalgayer
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Feb 2010
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Great points, Jes. I was just thinking that the oxygen permeability might be like that attained with an oak dowel. Just throwing an idea out there! Thanks for reeling me back in
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Flander's Sour Red {1 Year Old on July 28, 2011}

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Double White

 
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:47 PM   #5
Revvy
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*Groan* All the oxygen permeablilty BS has also been long since debunked...There's a million threads on here about using water bottles, and now since the BPA recalls over the last few years, more and more water bottle manufacturers are making number 2 and 1 hdpe water jugs, in fact the better bottle company has actually been subcontracted by spring water companies to make more bottles for them...it's all been readily documented on here. INCLUDING the fact that when calculated the oxygen permeability turned out to be not too much different than glass carboys them selves, i.e. NEGLIGABLE, leading many intelligent folks to actually belive that that whole argument was MAYBE just a ploy by the glass carboy manufacturers, when facing competition, to dissuade folks from using them.

So can we please drop this BS pleeze???

Now dropping all that crap off the table, seems to me that using a water bottle for a wild fermentation and pitching it later is a really good idea. It keeps the rest of the gear untainted.

In fact, I've been too nervous to play with wild critters, but it never occured to me til now to go "disposable."
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:22 AM   #6
Calder
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With the exception of 'Better Bottles', I have not seen any data or claim that other plastic containers are similar to glass in their O2 permeability.

I don't think it is BS.

Personally I would be concerned with leaving any beer in plastic for anything more than a couple of months.

 
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Old 01-31-2011, 02:46 PM   #7
Oldsock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calder View Post
With the exception of 'Better Bottles', I have not seen any data or claim that other plastic containers are similar to glass in their O2 permeability.

I don't think it is BS.

Personally I would be concerned with leaving any beer in plastic for anything more than a couple of months.
Here is some good info: http://www.babblebelt.com/newboard/t...1897&pg=&tpg=1

I've had great results with aging in Better Bottles for years, no off flavors or other issues (like shards of glass in my foot).
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:44 PM   #8
El_Exorcisto
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Somehow, beer has been aged in OAK barrels for millenia... It seems to me that is oxygen permeability were an issue, then England, Belgium, and Germany would be covered in clay vessels, not old barrels. Stop quoting outdated theory, stop parroting garbage you have never experienced, and start being part of the solution. If plastic BAGS permitted that much gas exchange, they wouldn't be such a problem when they are zip tied over your head. I'm sure a plastic bucket or bottle will be just fine.

 
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:18 PM   #9
ReverseApacheMaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Exorcisto View Post
If plastic BAGS permitted that much gas exchange, they wouldn't be such a problem when they are zip tied over your head. I'm sure a plastic bucket or bottle will be just fine.
Your logic is horrible.

 
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:28 PM   #10
MalFet
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This

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Exorcisto View Post
stop parroting garbage you have never experienced
plus this

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Exorcisto View Post
If plastic BAGS permitted that much gas exchange, they wouldn't be such a problem when they are zip tied over your head.
equals awesome. How do you know it IS a problem? Are we to conclude that you've been murdered, gangland-style

FWIW, I'm inclined to agree with your ultimate point that the dangers of oxygen permeability have been overblown, but every word in your post is insanity.



 
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