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Old 01-19-2011, 09:19 PM   #1
Montanaandy
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I am a glutton for punishment - I am attempting to use 3724 once again and once again I am running into the SOS that I always do when using this yeast. If the end product was not as great as it is I would have ditched this yeast long ago.

I had some washed yeast that worked much better but the mason jar lid buckled and compromised the yeast so I had to start from scratch with a new smack pack. Not good.

Brewed a Saison on 12/23/10 with an OG of 1.078 and as of yesterday I was stuck around 1.030 (refrac reading converted). Started in the mid-high 80's and I have been keeping this in the 90's for the last 2+ weeks but the gravity has not gone down at all during the last 2 weekly readings that I have taken.

I do have a pack of 3711 which I can build up with a starter and pitch although I would rather not. I can wait longer if necessary with the 3724 but it just seems that I am wasting time/resources. Is there anything else that I am missing/can do to get this kickstarted again or should I throw in the towel and pitch the 3711. I read the threads where people claim to have reached terminal gravity in a few weeks at lower temps and I just cannot figure out why the first gen of this yeast sticks on me every time. Thanks, Montanaandy



 
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:23 PM   #2
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When I used it recently, I just forgot about the beer for 3 months while it was in the primary and when I kegged it, it was at final gravity and, thus far, is my best Saison to date!


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Old 01-19-2011, 09:24 PM   #3
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I too feel your pain, but I've found with that yeast I always do better if I start at a much lower temperature and gradually ramp it up. I'll pitch at 68, keep it there for three days or so, and start adding 2-3 degrees per day (watching gravity) until I'm up into the mid-80s. I'm not sure why it works better, but when I've started hot I've always ended up having to fight to get past 65% attenuation. Starting at 68, that first 65% comes much slower, but then it doesn't stop until it gets to 85%

 
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:27 PM   #4
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Just out of curiosity, any reason why you're avoiding the 3711? A pretty good brewer in my local club brought a saison he'd fermented with 3711 and it was possibly the best saison I've ever tasted. He noted how easy the 3711 was to work with.
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooter View Post
Just out of curiosity, any reason why you're avoiding the 3711? A pretty good brewer in my local club brought a saison he'd fermented with 3711 and it was possibly the best saison I've ever tasted. He noted how easy the 3711 was to work with.
I have only used 3711 once before and I didn't have adequate temp control at that time and I ramped it up too high so the beer turned out badly (I also used Sorachi Ace hops and perhaps that had something to do with it too - who knows).

I was hoping to save the 3711 to make another Saison instead of having to use it to jump start the 3724. I am anxious to brew again with the 3711 because of all of the positive feedback and to use it correctly this time around. I use the 3724 mainly because my LHBS caries it and not the 3711 for some reason. Montanaandy

 
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_Club View Post
When I used it recently, I just forgot about the beer for 3 months while it was in the primary and when I kegged it, it was at final gravity and, thus far, is my best Saison to date!
Yeah, I think that I may just tuck it away in a corner of the brewery, keep it on the heat and take a gravity reading periodically until it eventually drops. Out of sight out of mind. Montanaandy

 
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:01 PM   #7
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That strain for some reason hates working above 90*F. Lower it into the ~88* range, give the fermenter a little rock/swirl and see what happens. This was a problem I ran into on my last saison and I read somewhere that while these yeasts perform like champs at higher temps, they stall out and refuse to work anymore if it gets TOO warm.

 
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanaandy View Post
I have only used 3711 once before and I didn't have adequate temp control at that time and I ramped it up too high so the beer turned out badly (I also used Sorachi Ace hops and perhaps that had something to do with it too - who knows).

I was hoping to save the 3711 to make another Saison instead of having to use it to jump start the 3724. I am anxious to brew again with the 3711 because of all of the positive feedback and to use it correctly this time around. I use the 3724 mainly because my LHBS caries it and not the 3711 for some reason. Montanaandy
Got it! I do know that, handled correctly, 3711 does seem to produce a nice beer.
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:35 PM   #9
Montanaandy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indigi View Post
That strain for some reason hates working above 90*F. Lower it into the ~88* range, give the fermenter a little rock/swirl and see what happens. This was a problem I ran into on my last saison and I read somewhere that while these yeasts perform like champs at higher temps, they stall out and refuse to work anymore if it gets TOO warm.
That is interesting. I have also read various posts where some have hit terminal gravity with 90'+ temps from the beginning and others have been able to keep it in the mid-upper 70's - low 80's and have it eventually hit TG although it takes longer.

I was looking at my Farmhouse Ales book (again) and it reiterated that Dupont cranks up the heat initially (85-95'F) in order to speed the process so that they can brew again (space limitations) and then dials it down into the 70's for conditioning.

At this point I am just going to dial it down into the mid - low 80's and let it sit all by itself in the corner until it decides to cooperate...

 
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:16 AM   #10
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They probably ferment under pressure as well, or at least more pressure than we generate in the average bucket/carboy, which has noticeable effects on different strains of yeast.

Maybe if you start it around the high 80s/low 90s it's not so finicky about the high temperatures. That'd be an interesting experiment to do if the strain didn't take so darn long to get its work done.



 
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