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Old 01-11-2011, 11:03 PM   #1
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Default Earliest known winery found!

6,000 yrs ago, in Armenia: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/SciTech/20...rmenia-110111/

Sorry all you brewers. This is clear evidence wine was first.

I can feel the die-hards blood boiling.


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Old 01-11-2011, 11:21 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Grancru View Post
Sorry all you brewers. This is clear evidence wine was first.

I can feel the die-hards blood boiling.
I'm not so sure about that. Beer recipe found that dates back to 7000 BCE; that's 9000 years old:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=128587208


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Old 01-12-2011, 12:52 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Tiber_Brew View Post
I'm not so sure about that. Beer recipe found that dates back to 7000 BCE; that's 9000 years old:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=128587208
If I read that right, they just found a pot that once contained various rotted fruits at one time or another with no indication that it was intentional.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:04 AM   #4
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Of course it was rotted, it was 9,000 years old!... Ok seriously, I think I have to throw my vote in for mead, it just seems the most likely. Some natural honey in a leather sachel, watered down so it lasted longer or was easier to use, then voila it becomes mead!
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:43 AM   #5
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If I read that right, they just found a pot that once contained various rotted fruits at one time or another with no indication that it was intentional.
The point is that they found a recipe for beer that dates back 9,000 years, proving beer was brewed at least that long ago.

TB
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On tap:
1. ESB 2. Citrus Wheat 3. Czech Pils 4. Ger Pils 5.[Nitrogen] ESB
Primary:
1. Porter 2. Porter 3. none 4. none 5. none 6. none
Secondary:
1. Brett Ale 2. Lambic 3. Lambic 4. none 5. none
Bottled:
About 18 gallons of beer & 3 gallons of mead
Kegged & conditioning:
Bock x2, IPA, 100% Michigan IPL x2, Saison x2
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:24 AM   #6
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The molecular evidence told McGovern the vessels from China once contained an alcoholic beverage made of rice, grapes, hawthorn berries and honey.

"What we found is something that was turning up all over the world from these early periods," he says. "We don't have just a wine or a beer or a mead, but we have like a combination of all three."
I read it earlier and didn't see anything about a recipe either... I didn't even think humans were writing anything besides scratching drawings on rock at that point in history anyway.

Edit: As for these four "ingredients" in a vessel, yet they could tell what they were ingredients in a fermented beverage? I can't even tell if there's pumpkin in a beer if it doesn't have nutmeg and other spices associated with pumpkin pie (just an example)... so I dunno... either way, I'm pretty sure they're just extrapolating some "evidence". And heck that makes a cool story to sell a beer beverage right?
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:41 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Tiber_Brew View Post
The point is that they found a recipe for beer that dates back 9,000 years, proving beer was brewed at least that long ago.

TB
They didn't find any writing stating a recipe. They tested clay jars and detected what was stored in them. Not really an actual 'recipe' per say.
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:21 PM   #8
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They didn't find any writing stating a recipe. They tested clay jars and detected what was stored in them. Not really an actual 'recipe' per say.
I didn't say it was written. Doesn't change anything either way now, does it? Remnants of an ancient beer was found and dated.

Hey guys, I'm not trying to say beer is older than wine; perhaps fermented beverages of multiple varieties go back further in time than we initially had thought.

Cheers,
TB
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On tap:
1. ESB 2. Citrus Wheat 3. Czech Pils 4. Ger Pils 5.[Nitrogen] ESB
Primary:
1. Porter 2. Porter 3. none 4. none 5. none 6. none
Secondary:
1. Brett Ale 2. Lambic 3. Lambic 4. none 5. none
Bottled:
About 18 gallons of beer & 3 gallons of mead
Kegged & conditioning:
Bock x2, IPA, 100% Michigan IPL x2, Saison x2
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Old 01-13-2011, 02:26 AM   #9
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Since yeast fungus goes back farther then fruit itself on the evolution scale, I would say fruit has been fermenting since it ever existed but that doesn't make the detectable substances in the pores of a storage vessel a recipe.
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:37 AM   #10
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Since yeast fungus goes back farther then fruit itself on the evolution scale, I would say fruit has been fermenting since it ever existed but that doesn't make the detectable substances in the pores of a storage vessel a recipe.
You're focusing too much on the semantics of "recipe." They have a list of ingredients that strongly suggests a man made beer.

Maybe you can write the author and paleontologists a letter illustrating their errors. Just because they don't have an actual written recipe, doesn't mean it wasn't a beer.

Or maybe we could tip a glass of our favorite beverage and enjoy them like we know how.

TB


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On tap:
1. ESB 2. Citrus Wheat 3. Czech Pils 4. Ger Pils 5.[Nitrogen] ESB
Primary:
1. Porter 2. Porter 3. none 4. none 5. none 6. none
Secondary:
1. Brett Ale 2. Lambic 3. Lambic 4. none 5. none
Bottled:
About 18 gallons of beer & 3 gallons of mead
Kegged & conditioning:
Bock x2, IPA, 100% Michigan IPL x2, Saison x2
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