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Old 03-17-2013, 07:14 PM   #8111
CityOChampBrew
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Boston falls again. Go pens.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:29 AM   #8112
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Oilers are making it interesting, they have a chance still
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:21 PM   #8113
paulster2626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofynewfie View Post
And still has an even +/- for the game, but he is a minus player for his career so to be expected. I will translate that for you - The leaf give up more goals with him on the ice than they score. Shouldnt your #1 defenceman keep the other team from scoring? Even Ladislav Smid was +4 last year
Sorry - I was away for a week doing fun things in Colorado and thus have been absent from silly comments such as this.

Let me translate +/- for you. It is USELESS when used on its own to illustrate a players effectiveness. Mark Fraser was (is?) leading the league in +/- with a +17. Does this mean he's a better defenseman than Dion Phaneuf? Of course not, it's not even close.

Without looking at what situations a player is playing in and the overall effectiveness of their game, +/- is the stupidest thing ever. If you think Dion Phaneuf is not a top-pairing defenceman, you need to look at the bigger picture.

 
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:06 AM   #8114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulster2626 View Post

Without looking at what situations a player is playing in and the overall effectiveness of their game, +/- is the stupidest thing ever.
+/- is only measured in even strength situations, so what situation is going to make much of a difference?
While I agree it is not the only tool used to measure effectiveness it does say something about my overrated comment.
His main job- keep the opposition from scoring.
His secondary job- start the rush/counterattack
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:46 AM   #8115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofynewfie View Post
+/- is only measured in even strength situations, so what situation is going to make much of a difference?
While I agree it is not the only tool used to measure effectiveness it does say something about my overrated comment.
His main job- keep the opposition from scoring.
His secondary job- start the rush/counterattack
What situation?

How about the other 4 skaters on his team? How about the other 5 skaters on the other team that this particular player is being put against? How about your own goddamn goalie?

Mark Fraser is currently 3rd in the league in +/-. He is up there with such all stars as Sheldon Souray, Zdeno Chara (legit), and Francois Beauchemin.

Justin Schultz is in 263rd place with a -12. I'm pretty sure he's a better D-man than Mark effing Fraser. Could it be he plays on a **** team with a **** goalie and is paired up against the other teams' top lines all the time? Probably.

+/- cannot be used on its own to judge a person's effectiveness. It is the single most misused stat on the planet, and is only pulled out when no other facts can support a statement about a player.

A player with a low +/- to me just looks like they play top-line minutes on a bubble team or a bottom-feeder. That's all.

 
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:05 AM   #8116
Goofynewfie
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Are saying he would be more effective if he got to play against less skilled players??? And you cant blame the goaltender if the defenceman gets beat. this comment is the funniest thing I have ever heard, blaming the other 5 players. just imagine all the shut outs Dubnyk would have if it wasn't for the 5 opposition players, or all the goals Kessel would have if it wasn't for the other teamd goaltender
Phaneuf biggest drawback is as hes laying out these big hits, while they look good , hes does eliminate the opposing skater from the play but he also eliminates himself by also being knocked down or leaving himself out of position for a couple seconds
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:39 AM   #8117
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I'm saying +/- is not for judging the effectiveness of a player. Having a high + number doesn't mean you are effective. It means you were on the ice when your team scored a goal. It is a stat that is just way too subject to other team factors and plain luck to be of any importance.

I used to be like you - I used to love +/- since it looks so simple and self-explanatory. But then I grew up and realized its bunk. Watch the games. You'll see certain players are used in certain situations, leading to things like getting scored on. Specific players take defensive-zone faceoffs, increasing the likelihood of getting scored on, while others are used more frequently in the offensive zone, increasing the likelihood of padding the +/- stat.

Look at your own team, for crying out loud. Top of the list: Mark Fistric, a +6. Bottom of the list: Justin Schultz, a -12.
Or look at forwards: Mike Brown, E vs. Jordan Eberle, -8.

At any given point in time, would you rather have Fistric and Brown out there, or Schultz and Eberle?


And I haven't seen Phaneuf put himself out of position going for a big hit once this season, resulting in a goal. When did this happen? Seriously - I must have missed it and would really like to see it.

 
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:40 AM   #8118
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:04 PM   #8119
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Lol I just watched the footage of Kostytsyn going for a change and allowing the Oilers a 2 on 1 resulting in a goal.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:15 PM   #8120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatyPortion View Post
Lol I just watched the footage of Kostytsyn going for a change and allowing the Oilers a 2 on 1 resulting in a goal.
Yeah that was pretty bad LoL
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