Equally Obnoxious Hockey Trash Talk Thread, eh? - Page 703 - Home Brew Forums

Register Now!
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Community > Drunken Ramblings and Mindless Mumbling > Equally Obnoxious Hockey Trash Talk Thread, eh?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-10-2012, 02:19 PM   #7021
Homercidal
Licensed Sensual Massage Therapist.
HBT_MODERATOR.png
 
Homercidal's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Feb 2008
Reed City, MI
Posts: 30,897
Liked 4852 Times on 3270 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by paulster2626 View Post
You said it's the players who are giving everything - the owners are offering no concessions. I agree with this, but please tell me what exactly the owners have to offer. What could they offer?

Also I'm curious as to how much cheaper you think ticket prices should get to attract fans to places like Phoenix and Tampa.
I couldn't give a crap about ticket prices in Phoenix. I'm talking ticket prices in the league overall. Frankly, I'm really only interested in buying ticket for either Detroit or Chicago, since they are the only place I'm ever likely to buy tickets. (And since the cost to driving down, attending the game, eating, and probably staying the night somewhere makes going to one of those two places WAY more money than I'm willing to spend to watch an NHL game.)

My question was not about a particular market, but rather would the league lower prices overall in order to make it up to the fans, or to gain revenue by quantity. I'm not complaining about ticket prices. I think you must have read that into my post. I wouldn't care if prices were double. It would not affect me in the least. It was a statement about how the league sees the cost of player salaries vs the cost of fans going to games.

I'm sorry for phoenix and places like that. Sorry they don't have enough fans who care about hockey enough to actually go out and see a dirt cheap hockey game. They have a very good team and if they can't get people to see those guys play at those prices then that only reinforces my belief that they will never make it work out there.

If they dropped two teams they could make realignment work better. Just a thought.

Detroit has high ticket prices because they sell a ton of tickets and they can afford to cut out the people who can't pay to see a game.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 02:57 PM   #7022
paulster2626
 
paulster2626's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2011
Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,862
Liked 337 Times on 226 Posts


Ticket prices in the markets you are concerned with are high because that is what people are willing to pay. I'm not sure what your argument is - you are saying that the Leafs/Hawks/Red Wings should lower their ticket prices to make more money? What??? By the way there are already $27 tickets available for the Blackhawks in the nosebleeds. Problem is they're all sold out - maybe they should lower the prices... er, what?

If you care about the NHL as a whole, then you must certainly care about what happens in Phoenix and Tampa (and Florida and New York Island and Dallas and New Jersey and Nashville and Columbus and Colorado and St. Louis and Anaheim and LA and Carolina). There are 30 teams, and they aren't going anywhere. Maybe one or two will eventually be relocated, but that's not happening any time soon.

Also you still haven't explained what the owners could have offered the players as concessions of their own when asking the players to make less money (that was you complaining it's been the players doing all the giving, right?).

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 05:39 PM   #7023
Homercidal
Licensed Sensual Massage Therapist.
HBT_MODERATOR.png
 
Homercidal's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Feb 2008
Reed City, MI
Posts: 30,897
Liked 4852 Times on 3270 Posts


They could give in on contract length, CBA term, Free agency age, all kinds of things that have much less to do with their share of revenue. Not really meaning that owners should give more than they did with the old agreement, only that they should be more willing to work with the players on those "other" items to end the lockout.

In the end it doesn't matter because the owners will still find ways around the CBA to spend too much. They've done it every time. The league has locked out, gotten salary lowered and they still pay too much through signings or extended contracts, etc. It just seems that if they can lower salaries so much they might pass some of that savings on to the fans. I'm more curious than anything, since as I already mentioned, it won't affect me going to a game in the least. Maybe they will just end up putting all of that money they are saving in players salaries to hold up the teams where they can't get the locals to watch.

And I do care about what happens in places where people want to watch hockey. But it makes no sense to prop up a team in a market where nobody wants to watch hockey just because. I might be tempted to make a claim that the league hasn't dropped Phoenix for the simple reason that they need the club to lose money so they can make their point about needing more concessions on players salary. In the end I really don't care if there are 30 teams, or 28, or 24 or whatever. I don't have a specific number in my head that a league is required to have to make it profitable. There are actually places where playoff hockey has been played and when I check their local newspapers online, there is nothing being said on the front page. PLAYOFF HOCKEY! Why is there a team there??

Oh well, I'm better off without NHL hockey anyway. I get more done in the evenings when I'm not bothered with a couple of hours of staring in front of the TV. The season is lost at this point IMO. I remember the last time this happened so very long ago. Kind of felt like a sham season.

So why is hockey in Phoenix such a great thing? I don't see the benefit.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 08:04 PM   #7024
paulster2626
 
paulster2626's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2011
Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,862
Liked 337 Times on 226 Posts


The players already had unlimited contract length. I can't see how the owners could concede anything on that front. The NHLPA has not asked for lower free-agency age, so no reason to offer that up. In fact, the NHLPA hasn't really asked for anything - what they consider important changes on a weekly basis. First it was the share of HRR, then a de-linked cap, then pensions, then "make whole", now it's contract length, variance, and CBA term. After the NHL gives on those, what's next?

Looking at what the owners want vs. the players, it's obvious what side's wishes will result in more stability going forward. Everyone knew it was the players who'd be doing all the giving here - I think it was just Fehr's job to get the best deal possible and make sure that the League is hesitant to do this again, accomplished by waiting until the last possible second to make a deal (January 1st-ish?) and getting a shorter CBA term.

Phoenix is a different animal altogether. Why they insist on keeping this franchise there, I do not know. But I understand why they fight to keep franchises in markets that are struggling. You just can't go ahead and keep shuffling hockey teams around like a game of musical chairs. It's not fair to the fans, the owners, the sponsors, or the players.

But really - when a team doesn't have an actual owner, the arena they play in is under some strange lease negotiations, and there have been rumours of the team leaving town for the past 4 years while all this crap has been going on, can you really blame people for being disinterested in it? I've been to Phoenix - they actually have some pretty hard-core hockey fans there, and the way they've got the arena set up with surrounding bars and restaurants is second to none. I'd like to see what could happen with a stable ownership running things there.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 09:08 PM   #7025
Homercidal
Licensed Sensual Massage Therapist.
HBT_MODERATOR.png
 
Homercidal's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Feb 2008
Reed City, MI
Posts: 30,897
Liked 4852 Times on 3270 Posts


If the players already had open-ended contract length, then it seems the ownership would be plenty pleased to get almost any length of contract length. I think the NHLPA has asked for certain things, but since the ownership controls everything, it makes sense that the union would be the ones to start the negotiations on each item. And they can bargain on each item as it comes up.

As far as Phoenix goes, I might commend the bars and stuff nearby, but I don't see how that necessarily makes the team profitable. I think it's time to cut the losses and maybe even trim the league. But I agree that's not likely to happen. Perhaps in a year or so after this CBA Fiasco is finalized and the league gets what it needs out of it, but keeping it after all of these unsuccessful years doesn't make sense. I doubt there is a grand plan coming up that would turn it around for them. If they were a sucky team, I would maybe suggest building a better team, but you and I both have seen how good they are. If people in that area can't appreciate what they have, then there is no hope.

I gotta go. Need to transfer an Autocad license and then pick up my kid. Maybe there will be an announcement of more talks today. I haven't had much time to check the news.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 02:33 AM   #7026
paulster2626
 
paulster2626's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2011
Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,862
Liked 337 Times on 226 Posts


True dat.

I believe they want 5-year limits because insurance will no longer cover any contracts longer than that. So they're basically taking a huge risk in signing them.

Although, one wonders if something is such a stupid thing to do, why do they keep doing it? And don't say collusion - fiscal responsibility is not collusion.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 04:05 PM   #7027
jtkratzer
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
jtkratzer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2010
Lititz, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,811
Liked 39 Times on 39 Posts


So...about that recent optimism that, like Icarus, went to high and then came crashing down...

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 06:08 PM   #7028
rjwhite41
Recipes 
 
Oct 2010
Osceola, Iowa
Posts: 1,421
Liked 25 Times on 18 Posts


I would like to commend all of you for keeping this thread going during the lockout. I haven't been around in awhile so maybe you've already discussed this, but how the hell can Bettman keep his f'n job after yet another disastrous labor negotiation? Worst commish of all time.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 08:17 PM   #7029
schmoe
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
schmoe's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jan 2011
St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 549
Liked 52 Times on 47 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by rjwhite41 View Post
I would like to commend all of you for keeping this thread going during the lockout. I haven't been around in awhile so maybe you've already discussed this, but how the hell can Bettman keep his f'n job after yet another disastrous labor negotiation? Worst commish of all time.
Because he gets the owners money in the long run.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 08:22 PM   #7030
jtkratzer
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
jtkratzer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2010
Lititz, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,811
Liked 39 Times on 39 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by schmoe View Post
Because he gets the owners money in the long run.
I would think the commissioner would be someone who would work with both sides for the good of the game and their relationship, not take sides, but then again, I don't know his job description specifics.

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Obnoxious Football Trash Talk Thread Cape Brewing Drunken Ramblings and Mindless Mumbling 36929 Today 12:50 AM
NHL 2009/20020 Season - Drunken Trash talk Allowed Denny's Evil Concoctions Drunken Ramblings and Mindless Mumbling 438 06-10-2010 05:58 AM
Trailer Trash Brewery? Or t^2 TXCrash Drunken Ramblings and Mindless Mumbling 6 08-20-2009 04:25 AM
Any hockey fans out there? Desert Monkey Drunken Ramblings and Mindless Mumbling 42 01-02-2009 02:19 AM
Stupid White trash Rhoobarb Drunken Ramblings and Mindless Mumbling 17 03-26-2008 07:50 PM


Forum Jump