What do you prefer more in your LHBS?

In the Rochester, NY area, we have a total of 4 homebrew stores, 2 and 2 are the same company in different locations, one being a GREAT beer store (Beers of World) but a pretty mediocre homebrew store and the other a hydoponics store. As you can see, neither is dedicated to homebrewing at all.

Each store has an unknowledgable staff, lack of product, horrible organization, and each is generally overpriced.

Everytime I walk into one of them for brew supplies, it really drives me closer to

• A) solely shopping online and
• B) opening up my own LHBS

I am really just sick of the lack of enthusiasm in the HBing community around here starting with the LHBS.

Now, my LHBS dream is not going to become a reality anytime soon as SWMBO and I still have to figure out what is going to happen once she has the letters "p," "h," and "d," after her name ( :rockin:yay riding on the curtails of success:rockin: ).
But this got me thinking: if I were to open my own gig eventually, what do you, the viewer at home, prefer more when doing your local homebrewing grocery shopping?

I personally say a good variety and actual STOCK of supplies as that is what is lacking most here in the ROC. Price is not too much of an issue for me with the local market as I really do like to support the local economy and generally the higher prices offset the cost of shipping online (aside from online deals, etc). Plus, if a business is good enought to carry as much product as possible, I feel they deserve the money to keep it available to me on a moments notice.

Good variety, fast special orders, knowledgeable staff(but not pushy or highly opinionated), and incentives to keep shopping. Like frequent brewers card...buy 10 and the 11 is free, or discounts to local club members in a AHA registered club with members cards.

Best of Luck to you

I chose variety/supply over all else. However, location is a close second. The nearest HBS is a 3 hour drive for me. The HBS I prefer is about 5 hours away. I order online. It'd be nice to source things locally.

Additionally, I would choose friendly staff over knowledgeable. I don't typically want advice when I go shopping. I just want a nice person to show me where to find the items on my list.

you forgot to put - or all of the above :cross:
one just opened up down the street from me and I love this place. very knowledgeable staff, huge selection, bulk ingredients, good prices, location ect.. I'm in there every other day.

superjunior said:

you forgot to put - or all of the above :cross:

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i purposely left that out as it would be the clear winner here. If i eventually open up a store, "all of the above" will be my main goal, however I want to see what people value most in their LHBS

*edit*
"all of the above" and a damn cool name. There is a street in the ROC called Mt. Hope and I would love to be able to open a store there and call it Mt. Hop.

If they are close to me and have the supplies I need at a reasonable price I will go there. The employees dont have to be master brewers for me to be happy as long as they are helpful and good customer service (ie fix mistakes)

I dont mind that most stores do gardening too. It's neat and when I plant in the spring I they help me out there too. My stores are Brew N Grow and Midwest in Minneapolis, MN

It's a tough business to make any money in at the retail storefront level. If you come to terms with that, then have at it.

My issues with many of the LHBS's I've been to are: staff/ownership are more interested in drinking & brewing for themselves and the customer is secondary. I'd be happier buying from a store where the owner did not drink.

I'd be happier walking into a place that had a great selection with great pricing and zero brewing knowledge. However the usual LHBS needs to attract new brewers and therefore they have to be able to guide and teach or they won't have new customers.

I went for variety/supply. But, that is me and I think you will get skewed results towards that asking us since most everyone here is relatively experienced and will not benefit much from a knowledgable staff. However, from a business standpoint, a lot of business comes from the hobby newb class who are likely overwhelmed by the process and equipment and having a friendly person who knows what they are doing take the time to answer their questions you are more likely to make a sale and get repeat business then a well stocked store with people who are unhelpful.

I think variety and knowledge. If you have knowledge then you're obviously dedicated to or passionate about homebrewing. And variety is super important, nobody likes to have no choices.

Yeah I have 2 choices in my vicinity. One is further away with less selection but the guy is super nice and helpful. The other is closer and has a better selection but I can't stand going there because of how pretentious and snobby the owners are. Most times I end up ordering online.

I'm amazed we have homebrew stores again. 2 have opened since I brewed my last batch about 1.5 years ago.

One is actually in the Whole Foods in Manhattan, the other in Brooklyn not too far from me. I like being able to run out and buy what I may need, although I spend more that way. The Brooklyn store has pretty much everything and is dedicated to homebrewing, mostly all-grain, but they have extract kits too.

The Whole Foods' is in their beer section, which has the largest selection of bottled beer I've ever seen, plus tap beer in growlers too. One side is dedicated mostly to equipment. Since it is on the way home from my office I stop there every now and then to shop, but have only bought one bag of DME to use in a starter from the homebrew store.

Product depth and breadth (variety) is king for me. But honestly, I'd be thrilled with just a decent selection. I don't really have a nearby supplier that's any good.

Price is of secondary importance. I didn't get into brewing to save money.

I chose 'Being dedicated to homebrewing', as this seems to me to be an "all of the above" choice. If a store's owner is dedicated to the hobby, then most of those other things will fall into place.

I live south of the ROC, (In fact, I'm the one who guessed 'Beers of the World' in your LHBS rage thread!), and I feel your pain.

I can retire in 15 years, and have been seriously considering opening a LHBS in the greater Rochester area as my second career. If you want to make money, I think having a solid online presence in addition to brick and mortar retail store is a must.

I refuse to go to either of our local choices. They suck royally. I don't think any of the people working at either store have ever done any brewing on their own. The hydroponics/homebrew shop in Victor, IMO, is just catering to the pot growers, and the homebrewing side of the store is just an afterthought.

Until either a) a good store opens up locally, or b) I open one myself, I'm going to stick with online ordering.

I too voted for variety of ingredients. Location shouldn't be an option since you're going to open it in the location that works for you! The store I frequent most often, and the one that I'll actually leave the house specifically for brewing supplies for, is almost the furthest away.

All of the other items matter, IMO. I have four HBSs that I consider local. Three of them are comparatively priced. Actually I had four but the store at the Dark Horse Brewery burned down. Didn't break my heart because their prices were out of sight and their inventory was paltry. It was pretty much a DH swag store with some overpriced brewing supplies. But, I consider them my local so I threw them some business occasionaly. The closest is the Bell's general store. It's my second least favorite. Their grains are sold pre-packaged in one or ten lb. increments depending on what C&B or Muntons sends them. They have sacks as well. They have a decent hop and yeast selection and a mill but you crush your own grain. Prices are comparable with the other two.

Now to my favorites:

Siciliano's Market in Allendale- Self serve bulk Grain, good prices, and lots of hops and yeast. They're also the best bottle store around. Unfortunately, they are the furthest from me and the help is usually not that well, helpful. I stop in there every time I'm up that way but it's not enough to make the hour+ drive JUST for supplies.

My favorite is the Red Salamander in Grand Ledge. They kinda have the perfect mix for me. I chat up the (always a homebrewer) staff while they're weighing and packaging my grain bill from their nice (not as much selection as Siciliano's but close) bulk grain buckets. They have sacks as well at prices equal to Bell's. They have a decent hop selection and if you don't see what you're looking for they've always (at least for me) produced what I AM looking for or a good equivilant.

So I don't know if this helps you or not but I'll sum up why I shop at each store. Price does not come into the equation, and if I need something and I'm in the direction of any of these stores and they have it that's where I'll shop.

Dark Horse- Love the brewery and want to chip in
Bell's- It's the closest and unfortunately I'm in K-zoo quite often. My last minute emergency purchase only store.
Siciliano's- Hands down, the best selection
Red Salamander- I feel like they'd give a kidney to help make my beer

I also buy most of my hops online in bulk.

You need another answer: "I love the drunk owners who, at the very least, carry a great selection of White Labs yeast."

Other than bulk grain and emergency yeast, all 3 LHBS's suck.

I checked 'knowledgable staff' although what I really meant was 'pleasant and helpful' staff.

Conesus_Kid said:

I can retire in 15 years, and have been seriously considering opening a LHBS in the greater Rochester area as my second career.

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YOU STAY AWAY FROM MY DREAM

Knowledgeable staff was my pic, but helpful really fits as well. I purchased my equipment kit and a brewers best kit from him in July. He went over the process with me and gave me his e-mail address and phone number telling me if I had any questions to call him. He's the owner, and the employee, I can e-mail him ingredient list for a beer I want to brew and he'll have it ready for me to pick up later in the day, along with crushing my grain. I still buy things online but you can't beat the service this guy provides.

Since there are 3 stores that carry HB supplies within an hour of me, I chose price.

pwndabear said:

YOU STAY AWAY FROM MY DREAM

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Or possible business partner

I don't care which one of you opens a dedicated LHBS in rochester, I'd go there. Please do it!

I put variety/supply of goods. I live in Sioux Falls, SD. While there is a small homebrewing club (that I am not a member of, I'm sure they're nice people but I don't know any one of them), the homebrewing scene hasn't really hit here. There are three places to buy supplies.

One is a liquor store, and you'd be lucky to get enough ingredients there to put a batch together. They usually have one kit in stock (I mean one actual kit, not one type of kit), pilsen extract, a few types of hops, some expired yeast, a few 1 lb bags of various grains and some equipment. I go there if I need bottlecaps or something quick (the upside is that since nobody knows what the hell is going on, they undercharge me for equipment, since they don't know what anything is).

The second is a gas station that has the "biggest beer selection in town." Good place, but most of the staff has no idea what's going on. They have a great selection, but not very organized. You really have to pay attention to what you're picking up as the markings on the shelves don't always really tell you whats there. And finding hops consists of searching through a pile of vacuum sealed pellets until you find the type you need.

Last is an actual homebrew shop. Or at least they say they're a homebrew shop. Only been there once. It's a hole in the wall with two aisles and didn't seem to have much of anything. I'd like to go back now that I have a bit more knowledge but the guy working followed me around last time I was there. No thanks.

There aren't many good homebrew shops, so if you're going to do it, DO IT RIGHT!!!!

Well, I live in Ithaca, and we have nothing in terms of LHBS. Ithaca Beer has a corner of their store/brewery committed to homebrew supplies, but it's completely inadequate. So yeah, any LHBS has to have STUFF. Like, if I decide I want to brew an ESB tomorrow, I should be able to get in my car and find some type of English Ale yeast at my local shop. But alas, I'm sure I would only find German lager and/or Belgian ale yeast.

if "general customer service" was on the list, i'd have my vote there. there are two local brew shops where i live, both about the same distance away from my house and both have comparable prices. the one i go to has a better selection on whatever i'm looking for for both homebrew and wine. this same place also has ALOT better customer service in general, which is a big thing to me.

Bensiff said:

Or possible business partner

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I have 3 home brew shops within a hour of me i only go to one as one is very dedicated to wine and will order me beer supplys if i want to wait for it. one wants to sell mostly prepackaged kits. then there is the one in bucyrus this place is pretty good priced has always a pretty good stock and the owner is the person who will be helping you and is a home brew freak himself.

I can't vote on just one. The closest store is an hour away so location is important I guess. Variety/supply of goods is also important so I wouldn't have to order everything online. I don't care about their dedication to home brewing or how knowledgable they are... we have this forum for that stuff

I would have to go with variety and price. I want to be able to find everything I want and for them to have a good selection of alternate choices if I want them. I also want to be able to not want to cry when I look at my bill.

Can't vote on this. My LHBS used to be great, single store, the co-owners worked the store and couldn't wait til you got there to chat, knew your name, had good stuff and great customer service.

They've since bought all the other LHBS's in the area, there is a different person there each time you are there working the "register", if you are lucky one in the back near the mill. No more customer specials, no more mailers/fliers and and no incentive for price as they have no "local" competition.

I swore last time I was there would be my last and I have no problem keeping that promise. There is nothing I can't get online with better prices and great service. If you want to operate Bricks and Mortar you had better offer that "special something" or your customers will go online.

Yeah I had to deal with the Rochester LHBS scene before I graduated from RIT and moved to Connecticut. Now that I'm here I see what a real LHBS should be.

I was only at the hydroponics shop once. It was OK but a bit expensive, and the selection wasn't really that great. It also was like an hour away from me. I also had a recipe with small amounts of a few specialty grains, and they told me if I wanted it crushed that I needed to buy a full pound of each one.

Beers of the World was closer but really didn't have much selection for homebrew supplies. There was also the memorable time when I asked a staff member for a pack of nottingham (all the dry yeast was behind the counter) and he gave me a 5g pack of Munton's yeast. When I told him that Nottingham and Munton's weren't the same thing, he angrily insisted that it was "all the same ****". They also didn't like to crush grains and would sometimes refuse. They suggested I use a blender, but as it turns out that doesn't really work.

man i'm spoiled! i happen to go to a LHBS who supplies the majority of NW microbreweries AND other homebrew stores out of their warehouse, but also has a storefront dedicated entirely to homebrewers. I get great prices (thanks to their bulkness), selection, service and my personal favorite... TURNOVER! There are other stores I go and and it's like "How long has that vienna malt been there?" And oh yeah, it's run by a brewing family with generations of experience under their belts. Their mill is the size of an SUV, there's some seriously intense brewing equipment in the back, they have homebrew parties all the time... it's just too good.

Man, threads like this make me realize just how lucky I am. I live a whopping 8 minutes away from Home Brew Mart ( www.homebrewmart.com ) here in San Diego. the HBS is a small division of Ballast Point Brewing Company, a local, and very good San Diego Microbrewery. The HBS is run by some of the Ballast Point brewers and they use the on site brewery there now for doing test batches and specialties having moved their main brewing operations into bigger digs to keep up with demand. The staff there is very knowledgable, helpful, and courteous. Their selection is fantastic and everything I have needed for the most part has almost always been in stock. Being in San Diego I also get the freshest vials of White Labs yeast from Home Brew Mart too, some that had even been cultured the day before I bought it! prices are usually reasonable and on par with the online retailers on most things. They even offer kegs of Ballast Point beer in cornies.

I have been thinking of opening up a LHBS. In my area of Florida, there are few shops. The best one is over an hour away. The other is 2 1/2 hours. They have a good selection on the website but the store is cramped, disorganized and the people who work there are pretty nasty, unhelpful and rude. Hell, they wont even help you find stuff. A new store opened up about 1/2 hour from me, but it is small and has a limited selection and the prices are way over priced. I dont mind paying a little more for an item, but double is too much. Example a 1 lb bag of belgian candi sugar on the net is 5.99, LHBS $10.
Why is it that so many LHBS have people with poor attitudes working there? Man, I know for myself, when I am even thinking of homebrewing, I get a smile on my face. So if I was running the place I would be ecstatic. I know that running a business is different than hobbiest. I have helped run a few businesses. But the basic premise of happy customers means happy owner still applies, especially in this day and age of the internet.

One of the things I like about going to the store is being able to BS with the people there about brewing. If we didnt like discussing our hobby, we wouldnt all be on this site.

I have been working on a business plan lately. A retail store and online presence is a must. Many distributors will not sell to you unless you have a brick and mortar business (no internet only shops). This is to prevent people from creating a "internet store" just to pay wholesale for their personal supplies. Many require copies of you Tax ID, business/occupational licenses, pictures of your store front, and copies of ads from papers and telephone books. And then they have a minimum purchase of at least 1000-2000 dollars, cash up front.

It is doable, but remember that you need to plan ahead and provide features that your local competitors dont.

As a former sales manager there are a couple of things I can add, attitude is overall more important than actual knowledge. Not that you want drooling idiots working for you, but knowledge about brewing can be taught, a friendly demeanor and smile cannot. If you take the plunge you want staff who is friendly and who isn't afraid of learning. Not to be negative, but a lot of times "experts" aka us avid homebrewers make the worst sales staff as many of us have our own ways to do things and are confident in our own "knowledge" on the subject, that can turn a lot of people off.

The other MUST is an online storefront. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, but a simple inventory listing and pricing guide is so incredibly helpful. It is really easy to call/email a store and ask that same information, but frankly our culture is lazy and we as a whole want to be able to just look it up on the internet. This is my only complaint with my LHBS, the only info their website has is the hours they are open and directions on how to get there. As a brewer who is well past being a novice, but by no means an expert I am running into recipes and ingredients that I didn't even know existed, and when it is 3 am and I want to know if my LHBS has said ingredients, well I can't check. So I end up looking on midwestbrewing's site, and often just ordering it from them because with shipping their prices aren't much more than my LHBS. The website part can be hard, but when you want someone's money, making it easy on them is the key.

This was a total tangent that went longer than anticipated, but I have a 6 day old daughter and I am sleep deprived, so like it!

I'll just throw in what irritates me about my LHBSs (3, none of which are closer than 2 hours away):

-Stock fresh yeast. I don't want to forget to check and end up home with yeast 2 months beyond it's "best by" date. We once found a vial that was over a year old, didn't buy though.

-Don't be a jerk. One of the stores has an employee that treats everyone as a newbie. My entire club has complained about him, but it hasn't gotten a lot better. Please, ask if they need help or guidance, but I don't need a lecture about how to homebrew every time I go in.

-Don't take solicitors during business hours. A guy selling a soda mixing machine took precedence over me buying supplies for about 25 minutes total. I blame the HBS co-owner who was listening to him, not the soda guy.

-Using the mill can cost money, but make it reasonable. An HBS near me charges an extra $.50/lb to let you mill your own grain. If an employee does it, it ends up more than that.

-Make it look like a store, not a garage selling homebrew supplies. Also, invest in a mop. I realize it's a laid-back hobby, but come on, you're also running a business.

Thanks for the rant time! Good luck and give the ph.d a big hug!:rockin:

Bump with pertinent story:

As per post #1, I hate the LHBS scene here in Rochester. Nonetheless, earlier in the year when Beers of the World had a groupon of $10 for a $20 certificate, I couldn't help but by my limit of 2. I mean, I spent $20 for $40 worth of beer/brewing stuff.

I am going to brew a partial mash pale ale this weekend. Decided to use my groupons for Beers of the World but with my previous experience, I decided to call the stores 2 days ago first to find out if they actually had what I needed.

Henrietta Store: No Vienna, no honey, no flaked barley, no amarillo hops, no american ale yeast.
Brighton Store: Put on hold for 5 minutes with no explanation. Got fed up and called back saying "listen, i just need to know if you have a couple items." Was told to call back in a second. Called back in a second. Gave my list of items and waited for another 5 minutes as the guy rummaged through everything imaginable to try and find from freaking amarillo hops. He said he finally found them. No Vienna, no honey, no flaked barley. Ugh...

Then I called up Sunset Hydroponics: They had the vienna, honey, and barley and would send it to a store closer to me.

Yesterday:
Got out of work at 4 and travelled out to sunset to grab my stuff. They just threw it all together in one bag instead of separating it out for me. Great. So i picked through it and got as much flaked barley out as I could but had to fill up to the .5 lb mark again. And they had the audacity to charge me the $0.32 for topping off to where I needed to be. Then I headed out to BotW in Henrietta and indeed they had nothing there--no yeast i needed, no hops (not even cascade iirc). All I grabbed there was the pale malt and pale LME (and a beer). Went to the Brighton store next. Looked in their hop fridge for the amarillo I was promised. Guess what they didn't have... It seriously took me about 5 minutes to find someone to actually help me and when I got someone, he told me that they would not have said they had amarillo as they "can't order it anymore." Really? Come on... Had to sub out which I really did not want to do.

At about 6pm, 2 hours after leaving work, I finally got all of the ingredients needed to make one beer after travelling to 3 different stores... and even then, I still didn't find everything I need.

More and more upset with this LHBS scene.

I sent an email to a small business counseling firm yesterday to get more information on opening a store. I'm through with buying local unless it's my own stock in my own store...

92greenyj said:

Man, threads like this make me realize just how lucky I am. I live a whopping 8 minutes away from Home Brew Mart ( www.homebrewmart.com ) here in San Diego. the HBS is a small division of Ballast Point Brewing Company, a local, and very good San Diego Microbrewery. The HBS is run by some of the Ballast Point brewers and they use the on site brewery there now for doing test batches and specialties having moved their main brewing operations into bigger digs to keep up with demand. The staff there is very knowledgable, helpful, and courteous. Their selection is fantastic and everything I have needed for the most part has almost always been in stock. Being in San Diego I also get the freshest vials of White Labs yeast from Home Brew Mart too, some that had even been cultured the day before I bought it! prices are usually reasonable and on par with the online retailers on most things. They even offer kegs of Ballast Point beer in cornies.

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I hate you! I lived in SD for 12 years until Uncle Sam made me move. I loved HBM do they still have .25 Ballist Point samples? Now I live HB pergitory. NO LHBS FOR YOU!

As a newbie in this adventure, I would say a knowledgeable & helpful staff is of great importance, followed by a good supply of useful products/ingredients. I want some place I can go to and pick the brains of those who know the product. I can't get that from ordering on-line.

Variety|supply of goods

Second is location.

I want to go and get whatever I need for brewing. Also very important to me is that you measure out my grains. If I come in with a recipe I don't want to go home with 3 1lb bags and 1 5lb bag of grain. I want to get my 3oz of roasted, 8 oz of carapils etc.

I never used it, but I think in house grinding is important too.

erikrocks said:

Well, I live in Ithaca, and we have nothing in terms of LHBS. Ithaca Beer has a corner of their store/brewery committed to homebrew supplies, but it's completely inadequate. So yeah, any LHBS has to have STUFF. Like, if I decide I want to brew an ESB tomorrow, I should be able to get in my car and find some type of English Ale yeast at my local shop. But alas, I'm sure I would only find German lager and/or Belgian ale yeast.

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I doubt the market in Ithaca could support it. It can barely support any restaurants that aren't vegan.

Plus, Ithaca is a pain to get to since there's no highways going there, I'd imagine it would affect deliveries.