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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Pale Stout?
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:14 PM   #11
hotbrew
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I'm of the opinion that you won't be getting any roasty flavors without the color tagging along as well. My understanding is that the color and roasty flavor comes from the slight caramelization of the sugars. Extracting any flavor from the grain will also result with extracting that color as well.

However I, too, have been putting together a recipe for a pale stout. I'm going a different direction than you are barrooze. Instead of getting the roasty flavor from the grains, I plan to use spices to impart the roasty nuttiness. I've accidentally made a overspiced pumpkin beer that mellowed out quite nicely. It contained zero roasted barley. However after submitting it for competition, none of the certified judges thought it was spiced at all! They all believed I used roasted barley. Of course my score suffered since it wasn't to style but it got me thinking.

If I could duplicate that roasted flavor using only spices and use a light grain bill to impart more body to the beer then I should be getting something close to a pale stout. I'm doing a series of experiments with 2 gallon batches and hopefully I can fine tune a recipe. I fully expect to do dozens of experimental batches over the course of a year or more. I will be posting my detailed results whenever I succeed.
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Old 01-20-2011, 04:33 PM   #12
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What about liquid smoke?
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Old 01-20-2011, 04:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by str8wire View Post
What about liquid smoke?
That seems to me to be a very different taste, more smoky than roasty.
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Old 01-20-2011, 04:55 PM   #14
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I hate it...but I wonder if in small doses it could be useful
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Old 01-20-2011, 06:08 PM   #15
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I'm always a fan of experimenting, but what are you trying to accomplish? If you want a blonde ale with roasty flavor, why does it matter if its a little darker than normal? A black IPA is what it is because its an IPA with a touch of roastiness in it, not because its black. An IPA with black food coloring wouldn't really make it a black IPA, its the flavor that makes it a black IPA. Correct me if I'm wrong tho, because I've only tried 3 black IPA's so far and all of them have been not a far walk from a stout, so I had a hard time considering them an IPA.

If I were going to try it, for the sake of trying it, I'd probably use pale malts, flaked barley and carapils to give it some stout-like body. Then before bottling use a coffee extract for a roastiness, a bit of chocolate extract for flavoring, and a touch of splenda to enhance body even more and add a touch of sweetness, or not if you want a dryer stout. But with all that extra junk thats not a 'natural' way to make beer, I wouldn't really care to serve it.
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Old 01-20-2011, 06:15 PM   #16
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the cold water soak thing might help lighten the final product. but i still think you would end up with a some what dark beer. i think the key would be to think of something to add that wont add much color like jfowler said. i don't know about tea though. maybe some kind of coffee extract? if you could dilute it enough to where the color was light but still get that roasted flavor maybe? just a thought. but i'm sure there are other good/better ones. let me know if you figure something out. i would love to try this!
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Old 01-21-2011, 03:48 PM   #17
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For me, the whole point of trying to make a pale stout is to simply see if it's possible. It's something new and exciting that I don't think anyone has done before. This is pioneering work, to boldly go where no one has gone before!
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Old 01-21-2011, 07:00 PM   #18
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Bluegrass Brewing Company has made a "white" porter called Melby Dick. I've never had it though so I can't say how light or porter-like it is. I got this from http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/395/55655

"Call me Ishmael. An original experimental beer from BBC. The idea spawned from a growing trend in the rest of the brewing community making out of style traditionally brewed beers. Other, dare I say, less original breweries, have caught on to the old making a light beer style dark game. They are making Black Bitters, Black IPA's, heck we even made a Dark Pilsner. But that is easy, all you have to do is throw in some dark roasted barley into your "regular" light colored beer recipe and viola dark or black "whatever". The real challenge is to make a dark beer light, and that my friends, is exactly what we have done. You may ask how would you accomplish such a monumental feat, bleach,didi 7,Oxyclean? No on all counts. We had to use a little creativity and some ingenuity. Think about what flavors are in a porter. Caramel malt sweetness, chocolatly and roasty flavors, and even some notes of dark fruit all these are gleaned from a dark roasted barley malt. So we took out all the dark malt and recreated all the flavors with lighter ingredients. We used a combination of lightly kilned barley, French Avo matte, caramel pilsner and Canadian honey malt to give a caramel malt sweetness. We pureed and added golden raisins to lend some notes of dark fruit. We then added roasted chocolate nibs in both the whirlpool and conditioning tank to give a chocolatey flavor and aroma. And finally a touch of brewed espresso from Heine Brothers to lend a bit of roastiness."
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:16 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesnsw View Post
This is kind of my worry as well. But then, why does it work to cold soak dark grains to get the color without the flavor?

I'm also assuming that the cold soak wouldn't remove all of the color- so you're more likely to get a brown beer, not a blonde beer.
A cold soak won't gelatinize any starch, protein, or sugars, so you'll get very little of the flavor-bearing particles out of the grains.
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:34 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotbrew View Post
For me, the whole point of trying to make a pale stout is to simply see if it's possible. It's something new and exciting that I don't think anyone has done before. This is pioneering work, to boldly go where no one has gone before!
I was just reading up on Pale Stouts tonight, and learned that they've actually been around for a long time, since long before 'stout' was associated purely with the modern, thick, dark understanding of it.

Used to be, 'Stout' was a term used to describe the strength of a beer, a 'Stout' being just a higher-ABV version of a Porter. Pale stouts were simply strong beers made exclusively with pale malts.

The recipe I'm going to try out in a couple months is 64% Maris Otter, 16% Crystal 30L, 8% Flaked Oats for the stout mouthfeel, and 4% Honey Malt for a bit of color and flavor. A pound of brown sugar to push the ABV up into Stout territory, a mild flavor and aroma hop schedule, and some Scottish Ale yeast. I have high hopes for it!
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