Allow smoking in our new pub?

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Should our new brewpub allow smoking?

  • Yes! Places like this should allow smoking.

  • On the fence - I may come in occasionally if smoking were allowed inside.

  • I would never set foot in that stink-hole if smoking were allowed.


Results are only viewable after voting.

Budzu

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Chattanooga, TN
My partners want smoking. I would like to hear what you guys who really appreciate beer think of this. Its an Irish-themed small brewpub/restaurant. There is not the option of making a smoking "section" because of the way the place is laid out.

Cheers !
 
It depends on what type of beers your serving. I voted no, because the bars I frequent carry only good beers. Beers that I don't want to enjoy while surrounded by a cloud of smoke.

I'm a smoker, but I still enjoy leaving a bar not smelling like smoke. With the smoking ban in illinois, it helps. I think most states will eventually ban smoking too, so why not start out smoke free?
 
From someone who lives in a place where smoking is not allowed in any publically accessible building, I can say 100% I will never again go to an establishment that allows it here in this country. When in Rome, different story, but not here.
 
I can't stand the smell of cigarette smoke. I can accept smoking at an outside patio at the bar, inside I would never even consider setting foot in it. I refuse to patron the Hard Rock Casino because they allow smoking inside.
 
Allow smoking at the bar, and concentrate the return air ducting in that area. If someone doesn't want to be around the smoke, let them get a table. If you've got an outdoor patio area for people to smoke, no worries. Be thankful you live in an area where the government will actually allow the owner to make that call, instead of whatever local real estate agent/ambulance chasing attorney won a commission seat gets to decide for you.
 
Also, realize this: With a question on a forum like this, your responses are likely to be from people on the extremes of the issue, not the vast majority of people.
 
I don't think it takes away smokers who can't smoke in your pub. Smokers can and will go outside, and everyone will be happy.
 
It's not that I wouldn't step foot in there, but a smokey dive is one kind of place, a clean brewpub with clear air is another.

No question which one I would prefer (assuming the beer was equal) There are enough smoky dives.
 
I didn't vote because I don't like the tone of your responses, but I would vote no, not because of the "I would never set foot in that stink-hole." But because I have never been in a true brewpub where smoking was allowed. Even before Michigan went non-smoking in public, the true brew pubs/microbreweries that had the best beer, and were just not trying to be trendy, did NOT allow smoking in their places.

Those places really believed that thier beer be tasted and smelled under the best conditons, and they felt that a smoky room wasn't condusive to that. It was that simple....in fact most of the staff, brewers, even a few owners of these places WERE smokers, so it wasn't someone on the "extreme" non-smoking side of the argument, being "smoking nazis." Just people who appreciated their craft, and wanted others to be able to appreciate it at it's best.

Even when I was a smoker, in those places it really wasn't a big deal to step outside to grab one, and usually it would even be with some of the staff, including the brewer. I may have not liked doing it in a regular bar where bmc was sold, but I could appreciate that the owners and brewers really cared about their product enough to want their customers to really appreciate all the subtle nuances in aroma and flavor- the hard work that went into it.

These places also tended to have knowlegable wait staff as well. It seemed that these places really cared about their beer enough to make for a well rounded and pleasing environment.

Most of the places that didn't allow smoking were GABF and other award winning places, including some you mak have heard of including, Dragonmead and Kuhnenn's. Both serious winners of awards for years. Both with beers consistatnly on top 100 lists of craft beers.

/2 cents.
 
I've lived in several states that have gone through the banning process. Restaurants consistently find they do better without smoking. Personally, I'm fine with bars allowing smoking, but I'd never go in one again. When Oregon made the transition they allowed bars to choose for a couple years, only the run-down dive bars catered to smokers. Every brewpub I visited banned smoking long before the state did.

One notable exception was the Horse Brass in Portland. It allowed smoking right up to the end. I was in the place once, for about 5 minutes. Just long enough to spot the people that invited me and tell them why I was leaving.
 
Ahhhh.....Revvy always takes the time to type what I am thinking, but too lazy to type!

I voted Never, but only because that was closest.
 
Something else to consider is if your competition allows smoking.

Here in Athens, indoor smoking was banned several years ago. Every single bar that didn't have an outdoor area where you could legally hold a beer in your hand while smoking a cigarette (ie not just a sidewalk) went out of business very quickly. I don't mean most, I mean every single one.

Now, when walking down the sidewalk to find a bar, you'll see the patios absolutely packed, fight your way into the door, wondering "how long will it take to get a drink here?" and then you finally get inside and there are 3 people sitting at the bar. Sure, things are a little different in a college town, but it's something for you to think about.

The correlation between beer drinkers and smokers is greater than general population.

Edit: Not just the BMC places. The local fancy-beer pub even had to buy out the coffee shop next door to get their outdoor area. Since they did that, their business is booming. It's another example of the packed-patio - empty bar scenario I mentioned, although this place isn't exactly empty inside.
 
I think a outdoor patio or enclosed smoking room would be good. I wouldn't put the patio near the main door though. I used to smoke on and off and didn't mind going to a bar and have a pint with a smoke but if your a brewpub, go no smoking in the main serving area.

Being that your in Tennessee and theres decent weather, I'd go with a patio but I guess its what your partners say...
 
I didn't vote because I don't like the tone of your responses, but I would vote no, not because of the "I would never set foot in that stink-hole." But because I have never been in a true brewpub where smoking was allowed. Even before Michigan went non-smoking in public, the true brew pubs/microbreweries that had the best beer, and were just not trying to be trendy, did NOT allow smoking in their places.

Those places really believed that thier beer be tasted and smelled under the best conditons, and they felt that a smoky room wasn't condusive to that. It was that simple....in fact most of the staff, brewers, even a few owners of these places WERE smokers, so it wasn't someone on the "extreme" non-smoking side of the argument, being "smoking nazis." Just people who appreciated their craft.

Even when I was a smoker, in those places it really wasn't a big deal to step outside to grab one, and usually it would even be with some of the staff, including the brewer. I may have not liked doing it in a regular bar where bmc was sold, but I could appreciate that the owners and brewers really cared about their product enough to want their customers to really appreciate all the subtle nuances in aroma and flavor- the hard work that went into it.

These places also tended to have knowlegable wait staff as well. It seemed that these places really cared about their beer enough to make for a well rounded and pleasing environment.

Most of the places that didn't allow smoking were GABF and other award winning places, including some you mak have heard of including, Dragonmead and Kuhnenn's. Both serious winners of awards for years. Both with beers consistatnly on top 100 lists of craft beers.

/2 cents.

Abstained on principle, then wrote an essay? You are riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma, bottled in a bomber and capped with a cork.
 
It is most appreciated to hear elaborated replies. We have alot of outdoor area, and its out back, so it would be perfect for setting up a patio away from the front entrance. I don't think it would fall in the budget as we are very close to opening.. but its something we could work on for sure.

It's interesting how heavy the opinions are falling on one side, even with the option so harshly worded.
 
I am a smoker and I also live in a state that has banned smoking in restaurants and bars. The bars that are BMC for the going out to get drunk crowd have been hit really hard since the ban went into place. I don't believe restaurants have been hit near as hard. Personally, when I am going out to have a good time it is a pain to go outside everytime I want to smoke. However, if I am going out to eat or enjoy a quality beverage in moderation I prefer it to be non-smoking. I think, if possible, a patio for smoking creates the best of both worlds. If I'll be there for a while I can hang out in the patio drinking and smoking and when I'm inside I can still see, breathe, and smell. Even smokers around here have come to enjoy not smelling like smoke nearly as bad when leaving a bar. Then again, I don't smoke indoors anywhere, even at my own house or in my own vehicle. To make a long story short, I think it depends on the clientele and atmosphere that you are going for. Sounds like it should be non-smoking to me.
 
Something else to consider is if your competition allows smoking.

Here in Athens, indoor smoking was banned several years ago. Every single bar that didn't have an outdoor area where you could legally hold a beer in your hand while smoking a cigarette (ie not just a sidewalk) went out of business very quickly. I don't mean most, I mean every single one.

Now, when walking down the sidewalk to find a bar, you'll see the patios absolutely packed, fight your way into the door, wondering "how long will it take to get a drink here?" and then you finally get inside and there are 3 people sitting at the bar. Sure, things are a little different in a college town, but it's something for you to think about.

The correlation between beer drinkers and smokers is greater than general population.

Edit: Not just the BMC places. The local fancy-beer pub even had to buy out the coffee shop next door to get their outdoor area. Since they did that, their business is booming. It's another example of the packed-patio - empty bar scenario I mentioned, although this place isn't exactly empty inside.

That wasn't the case in Colorado. Results likely vary based on regional differences.
 
I didn't vote, and I pretty much agree with Revvy, but he's got a much bigger enigma than I do.

After smoking for over 30 years, I was finally able to stop. It's been about two years, and I still have cravings. Hell, I gave up cocaine and it wasn't as bad. But, I can't say I'd never go in your place, but I can say, if it was smoky, I'd be out of there in a pretty big hurry. I didn't go through the pain and withdrawals to put up with someone else's second hand smoke. I get plenty from my wife.

Down here, if the bar gets less than 10% of their revenue from food, you can smoke in there. We've got a bar like that just around the corner from work. When I smoked, I'd stop in occasionally for a cocktail or beer before driving home. But, since I've stopped smoking, I have not been back in there. Nor, do I plan too. To a non-smoker, it stinks.

And, as a smoker, I usually never minded going outside. The Navy started that LONG before it ever became fashionable in the real world.
 
OP-

Consider using Survey Monkey online to create an actual survey with questions like "how often do you drink beer?" and "how often do you go out to eat?" so you can qualify the responses to the main question about allowing smoking. If someone who goes out once a week says they don't mind, you weigh that heavier than someone who goes out once a month who says no smoking.

Once you create the survey, approve it with your partners, you get a link that you can post on facebook etc and target it locally, so you know what people in your actual market think about it.

Although, with yall about to open, it's probably the last thing you have time for. But don't take 19 responses on HBT to mean anything. I can find 19 people here to tell me that simcoe tastes like grapefruit.
 
No matter how great the beer, if I have to deal with smoke to get one, I'm not going in.

I'm glad that Michigan passed the no-smoking ban, since I can now go into places that I avoided for years. One time, about 8 years ago, my husband was out of town and a good friend took me out for Mother's Day dinner. I loved my dinner, but the table next to me had a smoker who came in as I was finshing my dinner and he kept lighting up. I did ok for a while, but then had to leave abruptly. I ended up in the hospital with an acute asthma attack, IVs, oxygen, etc. Smoke is a big trigger for my well-managed asthma. That smoker cost me $1000 (my deductible) plus whatever my insurance paid.

For some people, second hand smoke may be just an annoyance. But it can kill, or cause medical issues for susceptible people. In some states, I don't have to put up with smoke anymore. If it's even a choice, I'd encourage you to not allow it. Smokers can go outside if they need a smoke. The only recourse I have is to avoid your establishment.
 
We have alot of outdoor area, and its out back, so it would be perfect for setting up a patio away from the front entrance. I don't think it would fall in the budget as we are very close to opening.. but its something we could work on for sure.

Doesn't have to be anything fancy for now. In Utah we went smoke free last year and most bars will have a patio with a few chairs and one or two of those heater umbrella things to keep folks from freezing.

It's the best solution i think. Then the bar can be smoke free and please the 60-80% of people who prefer it that way, and your smoking customers can step out for a puff and not freeze to death.
 
The biggest point about a smoke free place has been made by a few people on here: smoke free creates a choice for the smokers. Smokers don't have to not visit a non-smoking place because they don't have to constantly smoke or can step outside. Non-smokers, the vast majority of whom will not tolerate smoke at all, will not go to a place where smoking is allowed.
 
My opinion: you want the largest clientele, allow smoking - there are a lot of smokers, as well as "I only smoke when I drink" people. And for every non-smoker who decides he can't stand it, you'll have plenty who can.

If you want people to enjoy their beer and/or food, don't. Even with good ventilation and non-smoking sections, non-smokers are always affected by the smoking section.

I don't smoke. I do play pool a lot. Back when smoking was allowed in pool halls, I would always play in the corner, in the non-smoking section. The smoking section had vent fans and was only a small percentage of the hall.

When I left, I stunk, every time. My clothes, my hair, my skin. Years later my leather cue case still smells of cigarettes. My car started to stink constantly just from driving home. My pool stick changed color and the stink got into the wood. My wife wouldn't let me come to bed without a shower.

Smokers have every right to do whatever they want to their bodies, and I will support their right to do it. However they have no right to make me miserable while doing it. I don't walk over to smokers and fart in their faces. I don't ruin their clothes or possessions. Why should it be OK for them to make me stink?

/my opinion

-Joe
 
Airborne and Yooper make great points for municipalities banning smoking indoors. Unfortunately, as a business decision, there are more smokers who won't go than non-smokers who won't go, one way or the other, respectively. Now, if it's banned, smokers will still go and make the choice to smoke outside, and the non-smokers will also go. That's a big part of why smoking bans are sweeping the nation. But, in a locally competitive environment, the bar that doesn't allow smoking is at a disadvantage to the bar that does.
 
I would vote for non-smoking because as an ex-smoker who switched to e-cigarettes back in February I can't stand the smell of the real thing and how it settles in my nose, my clothes, and my hair. My boyfriend still smokes real cigs and has no problem going outside to get his nic fix. The worst part about drinking/eating in a smoky bar/pub is that you can't actually smell what you're eating/drinking because of the smell of smoke surrounding you.

Unless electronic cigarettes are banned in TN (not sure if they are or not) you might want to consider not bothering folks who use them in your establishment. They don't produce second hand smoke (only water vapor).
 
People have a right to smoke just as long as I do not have to smell it. I voted no.
 
Fletch, the idea of the online survey is ok, but because its not random, it doesn't really give you any more insight than asking a group of folks here. Also, I don't think I would accept as fact your assertion that, in a non-regulated situation, that there are more smokers who will base their decisions on smoking status than non-smokers. That seemed likely to be true 20 years ago, but I'm less sure of that today. It would be interesting to see an actual, real survey done to test that assertion.
 
I vote "only cigars and crack pipes." Is that an option?

You've got to remember, smoking rates in this country are what, 20% and declining? You're likely annoying (or completely turning away) four customers for every one who wants to light up. I don't see how you open up a pub - certainly not a higher-end pub - these days and allow smoking. All of the fears about "no smoking = losing all our customer" fears have been shown time and time again to be overblown.

Ultimately, it comes down to your target market. If I were opening a little bar that was catering to the guy getting off work at the factory at 5:00, looking for a couple cold beers and maybe some wings, I might allow smoking. If you're looking for a quieter, higher-end clientele (fewer patrons spending more money on high-end beer and spirits), I don't see how you do that in a smoke-filled room. Not in 2010.
 
I vote "only cigars and crack pipes." Is that an option?

You've got to remember, smoking rates in this country are what, 20% and declining? You're likely annoying (or completely turning away) four customers for every one who wants to light up. I don't see how you open up a pub - certainly not a higher-end pub - these days and allow smoking. All of the fears about "no smoking = losing all our customer" fears have been shown time and time again to be overblown.

Ultimately, it comes down to your target market. If I were opening a little bar that was catering to the guy getting off work at the factory at 5:00, looking for a couple cold beers and maybe some wings, I might allow smoking. If you're looking for a quieter, higher-end clientele (fewer patrons spending more money on high-end beer and spirits), I don't see how you do that in a smoke-filled room. Not in 2010.

I already replied (so feel free to ignore me!) but the bird reminded me of something that happened here at our local pub. They were very concerned about the smoking ban. But of course, the law is the law. And so they complied. Business is UP. WAY up. Why? Because more of us are in there, for longer, ordering food and expensive beers. Instead of the guy order $1 specials and smoking, we're order pitchers of craft beers and ordering food. After that, he didn't even put on a "smoking porch" or anything, and the law requires people who smoke to be x amount of feet away from an entrance, so no one is allowed under the awning to smoke. He's happy- business is up, and people like me are plunking down way more money than the "after work" guys did.
 
I vote "only cigars and crack pipes." Is that an option?

You've got to remember, smoking rates in this country are what, 20% and declining? You're likely annoying (or completely turning away) four customers for every one who wants to light up. I don't see how you open up a pub - certainly not a higher-end pub - these days and allow smoking. All of the fears about "no smoking = losing all our customer" fears have been shown time and time again to be overblown.

Ultimately, it comes down to your target market. If I were opening a little bar that was catering to the guy getting off work at the factory at 5:00, looking for a couple cold beers and maybe some wings, I might allow smoking. If you're looking for a quieter, higher-end clientele (fewer patrons spending more money on high-end beer and spirits), I don't see how you do that in a smoke-filled room. Not in 2010.

I have to agree 100% with this, plus look at smoking laws. They are getting more strict, not less. As much as I feel for smokers (I used to smoke and have a ton of friends that still do) it's just the trend. Like someone stated a while ago, better to go non smoking in case your state passes a law and forces you to do it. Because if you are already doing well as a non-smoking pub, a change of law would do nothing to your clientele.
 
I don't want to go get a drink and have to get my clothes and coat dry cleaned afterwards because of the cigarette smoke. I also know that I'm not alone in feeling that way. Smokers only make up a small percentage of your potential customers and that percentage is declining every year as taxes go up and smokers die off.

If you want to bring in a diverse crowd of people keep it smoke free. If you want to limit yourself to a small percentage of potential customers then I don't think you'll be in business very long.
 
I don't want to go get a drink and have to get my clothes and coat dry cleaned afterwards because of the cigarette smoke. I also know that I'm not alone in feeling that way. Smokers only make up a small percentage of your potential customers and that percentage is declining every year as taxes go up and smokers die off.

If you want to bring in a diverse crowd of people keep it smoke free. If you want to limit yourself to a small percentage of potential customers then I don't think you'll be in business very long.


... I do find it amusing that these words are spoken by a man from North Carolina...
 
I'm a transplant from New York but I stand by those words! Within my circle of friends and co-workers if the choice was a smoking or a non-smoking the bar, the non-smoking bar wins everytime. North Carolina just recently put in the no-smoking ban and from what I've heard and read business is up.
 
i smoke.( i should quit) but i dont take into consideration if i cant smoke a a bar or pub when i go. i went out on tuesday to a place that didn't allow smoking inside. they had a patio so i drank inside and smoked out side. not an issue. although if you do set the smoking area outside, let people bring their drinks out too. (if law in your area allows that) one bar that i go to cant let people bring there drinks out when they smoke and one has a patio so they can and i would much rather go to the one where i can smoke on the patio and bring my drink with. Good luck with your pub!
 
I really REALLY miss having a nice pint and a butt at the bar. In Maine there is no option for that, all public places are smoke free.

The only place I can smoke inside anymore is in my basement or my garage. The only thing that makes me reconsider my liberal leanings is the lefts penchant for passing these damn laws, seat belts, helmets, etc... There should be some room for personal responsibility. If an owner wants a smoking establishment let him have one.

That said, you probably have better luck as a non-smoking establishment because once they're done here they're coming to your state next, might as well get compliant now.
 
i don't smoke cigarettes, and drinking beer in a smoke room makes me sweaty, and short of breath. i just can't breathe.

so, one vote for no smoking. but, i do believe in individual freedom, so provide an outdoor fenced area for people to carry their drink while they step out for a smoke.
 
As far as I know in Tennessee, the establishment can choose their smoking status. The catch being that if they choose to allow smoking indoors they must also be a 21+ establishment. Many bars in Memphis chose to allow smoking but many establishments are smoke free. (As a sidebar it is also up to the establishment to allow or disallow their patrons to carry firearms, too.)

I am originally from Chattanooga and lived their for 20 years and I can say that it is one of the most progressive cities in the south. I think that you should not allow smoking because you would be narrowing your patrons by eliminating families otherwise. And family patronage is a good source of income in a place like Chattanooga.

As for as the other 2 brew pubs in Chattanooga - Im not sure if Big River allows smoking or not, but they might in the "bar" section with the pool tables. As far as The Terminal goes, I have only been their once and SWMBO says they dont allow smoking but I cant remember.

Bottom Line in Tennessee
Smoking = 21+
No Smoking = Family Business + Drinkers

Sounds like No Smoking would be the way to go, unless the laws are different in Hamilton County.
-Jefe-
 

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