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Old 11-24-2010, 07:42 PM   #1
wonderbread23
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I am getting ready to brew a decent sized double IPA this weekend (OG=1.080) which gets about 10% of its fermentables from table sugar. Has anyone attempted to create their starters with the same sugar composition as their target wort? My starter has been stepped once with DME, and in the final step I am thinking about putting 10% table sugar in there so that the yeast can acclimate to this environment. So, who thinks?

1. It won't have any impact on attenuation / flavor.
2. The impact will be positive (better flavor and attenuation)
3. The impact will be worse (worse flavor and attenuation)

FYI, the starters I've made:

Starter Step #1: 1400ml @1.040 w/ 100% DME & nutrient. Pure O2 on stir plate.
Starter Step #2: 1400ml @ 1.040 w/ 90% DME 10% table sugar, & nutrient. Pure O2 on stir plate.



 
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:52 PM   #2
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
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The no-chill people go one step further. They use actual wort from the batch to make the starter. Starter gets rolling while the bulk of the wort slowly and naturally chills.

I don't make starters very often, but when I do, I ferment then a week in advance and let the yeast settle out. Then I dump all the liquid off and just pitch the cake. This is to minimize any flavor contribution from the starter wort.


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Old 11-24-2010, 09:37 PM   #3
Calder
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I'm not saying it will not work, but wisdom is that yeast get 'weak' when given simple sugars.

I would not do it. Justs seems to add additional complication for no benefit, and could be detrimental.

 
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:41 PM   #4
Anubis
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Don't use sugar. It won't shock your yeast to be in wort that has simple sugar. All it will do is make your yeast lazy and they won't go for the maltose. It WILL affect you attenuation, I would even add the sugar to your ferm only after it has died down and the yeast have eaten most of the maltose then add the sugar. About 72 hours into ferm then I add when using sugar. All you are doing is adding a 100% fermentable sugar, not for much more than added abv. It won't produce off flavors or really any flavor.
If you don't believe me others will be along shortly to say the same.
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:44 PM   #5
PT Ray
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I don't see why not. Sucrose still has to be broken down by the yeast like maltose.

 
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:48 PM   #6
Anubis
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Yes but the yeast have to produce enzymes to break down maltose. Simple sugars require a lot less effort and so the yeast go for that first. Once they have consumed all the simple sugar they will be ill prepared for eating maltose because they are now generations away from their "parents" who could digest maltose.
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GALLONS BREWED IN 2011 : 35
BUCKET 1 : Citra IPA 3
BUCKET 2 : Centenial Blonde
CARBOY 1 : Citrillo IPA
CARBOY 2 : Apfelwein
CARBOY 3 : Psyder test001
CARBOY 4 : empty
CARBOY 5 : Hopsplode
KEG 1 : Palefoot APA
KEG 2 : empty
KEG 3 : Star San
BOTTLED : Nothin'
BUILT: MLT W/Copper Manifold & Rotating Sparge Arm

 
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:54 PM   #7
strat_thru_marshall
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do not use sucrose in your starter. it will affect the enzymes that the yeast create, and if you use a large enough percentage of table sugar the new yeast that are created in the starter could be UNABLE to metabolize maltose! This is not opinion, this is fact. No simple sugars in a starter intended for beer.

 
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:57 PM   #8
Hermit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calder View Post
I'm not saying it will not work, but wisdom is that yeast get 'weak' when given simple sugars.

I would not do it. Justs seems to add additional complication for no benefit, and could be detrimental.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
Don't use sugar. It won't shock your yeast to be in wort that has simple sugar. All it will do is make your yeast lazy and they won't go for the maltose. It WILL affect you attenuation, I would even add the sugar to your ferm only after it has died down and the yeast have eaten most of the maltose then add the sugar. About 72 hours into ferm then I add when using sugar. All you are doing is adding a 100% fermentable sugar, not for much more than added abv. It won't produce off flavors or really any flavor.
If you don't believe me others will be along shortly to say the same.
Is there any hard evidence for this? I know it gets repeated often, but I don't think yeast will lose their ability to digest maltose this quickly.

 
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:58 PM   #9
Hermit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strat_thru_marshall View Post
do not use sucrose in your starter. it will affect the enzymes that the yeast create, and if you use a large enough percentage of table sugar the new yeast that are created in the starter could be UNABLE to metabolize maltose! This is not opinion, this is fact. No simple sugars in a starter intended for beer.
Have a link you can provide on this one? Thanks.

 
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Old 11-24-2010, 10:02 PM   #10
Walker
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guys... he's not saying he wants to use JUST simple sugar, or even A LOT of simple sugar. He is suggesting making a starter wort that closely resembles the wort he will actually be brewing.


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