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Old 11-24-2010, 01:22 AM   #1
Ohio-Ed
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Hey guys...

I just ordered 2 Chugger Pump stainless steel heads that I plan to use to replace the plastic heads on my March pumps.

I am building a manifold using 304 stainless nipples, tees and elbows.

With the stainless heads, can I "hang" my March pumps from the manifold without really "mounting" the pumps?

I'm thinking of attaching the pumps to the plumbing with unions and not attaching them to the frame.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Ed

 
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:07 AM   #2
trigger
 
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I have no experience with the stainless pump heads to back this up, but I would suspect that vibrations would significantly shorten your pump life. I know that the pumps don't vibrate a lot, but even the small vibrations *could* cause mechanical problems both in the motor and in the mechanical attachments of the pump head to the drive unit and in the manifold's connections.

Here's some anecdotal evidence: My dad and I built a '79 Bonnie cafe racer. The carb manifolds are press fit to the cylinder head and the mufflers are bolted directly to the seat hanger. After about 1000 miles the muffler brackets have cracked and the manifolds have beat themselves down so that they are no longer tightly pressed in. This setup worked fine 30-40 years ago on race bikes because they were being rebuilt constantly and the problems never cropped up. Granted, the vibrations experienced by these parts are orders of magnitude larger than a pump, but I feel like hanging the pump would be risking $130. Take this with a grain of salt, though, as I don't have any data to back up my suspicions.

 
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:19 AM   #3
Ohio-Ed
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Trigger,

Thanks for the reply.
My thoughts are that the head is mounted to the pump pretty well with 4 screws.
I'm not sure if mounting the motor and letting the head "vibrate" is much different than the other way around?

Ed

 
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:34 AM   #4
trigger
 
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Ohio-Ed,

I think that the concern with handing the motor is the mass difference. I've tried to find the weight of the head but couldn't. From looking at my march (with the plastic head) I very much doubt that the head of the stainless unit outweighs the drive unit. Another thing, the pump is designed to be mounted by the body, which is very close to the origin of any vibrations, therefore exerting less torque on the mounting device. Since [I]t[I]=Fxr the force exerted on the mounting (in your proposed design) will be amplified. This translates to more stress on your manifold. Another thing, any flex in your manifold could cause an amplification of the vibrations. If you happened to hit a harmonic this might be really bad.

As I said, I'm not speaking from any sort of experience with this particular situation. I just feel like the pumps were engineered to be mounted in a certain way and not doing so might cause a failure.

 
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Old 11-24-2010, 03:02 AM   #5
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They are called motor mount for a reason.

This may sound a little overblown======== why not just take the M.M. out of your car after all the motor is bolted to the exhaust system.

Torque

 
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:40 AM   #6
Catt22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio-Ed View Post
Hey guys...

I just ordered 2 Chugger Pump stainless steel heads that I plan to use to replace the plastic heads on my March pumps.

I am building a manifold using 304 stainless nipples, tees and elbows.

With the stainless heads, can I "hang" my March pumps from the manifold without really "mounting" the pumps?

I'm thinking of attaching the pumps to the plumbing with unions and not attaching them to the frame.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Ed
IIRC, you can "hang" the March 809's from the pipes as you desire. They are designed for this and that's the reason that they often do not have an attached base mounting plate. However, it would be a good idea to confirm this with a quick phone call to March's technical support people. IOW, don't rely on what I'm recalling from something I came across on the subject long ago. I think you could safely assume that the stainless Chugger pump head would be at least as strong as the plastic March head, but again, it would be prudent to contact the Chugger people directly for advice on mounting.

 
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:32 AM   #7
BrewBeemer
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1/25 hp Chugger pump motor 4 lbs 3.7oz, SS Chugger pump head 1 lb 6.4 oz.
Not clue on March plastic pump head weights as I dumped my March pumps long ago.
March pumps having ball bearing motors vs Chugger with sleeve bearing Motor orientation other
than horizontal with a sleeve bearing motor will shorten the motor life with worn out thrust washers.

 
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Old 11-24-2010, 01:52 PM   #8
Ohio-Ed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catt22 View Post
IIRC, you can "hang" the March 809's from the pipes as you desire. They are designed for this and that's the reason that they often do not have an attached base mounting plate. However, it would be a good idea to confirm this with a quick phone call to March's technical support people. IOW, don't rely on what I'm recalling from something I came across on the subject long ago. I think you could safely assume that the stainless Chugger pump head would be at least as strong as the plastic March head, but again, it would be prudent to contact the Chugger people directly for advice on mounting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewBeemer View Post
1/25 hp Chugger pump motor 4 lbs 3.7oz, SS Chugger pump head 1 lb 6.4 oz.
Not clue on March plastic pump head weights as I dumped my March pumps long ago.
March pumps having ball bearing motors vs Chugger with sleeve bearing Motor orientation other
than horizontal with a sleeve bearing motor will shorten the motor life with worn out thrust washers.
Thanks for the replies guys.

Catt... very good advice.

BB... The thought is that the pump will still be mounted vertically, just not attached to the rig by the mounts, only the head. Also, I'm planning to use March motors and Chugger heads.

If I have a fairly substantial SS manifold, I am going to have to secure it to the rig. Having to install pump mounts and having to ensure the manifold & mounts line up with pump mounts and that nothing is in a bind is what I'm trying to avoid. Not a big deal if the answer is "don't mount the pump by the head", just looking for options.

Thanks,
Ed

 
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:12 PM   #9
Catt22
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I emailed March Pumps on the mounting question. This is the response I received a few minutes ago:

The 809-PL-HS can be mounted using only the pipes for support. It may
either be horizontal or vertical, but if vertical, make sure the motor is
the end closest to the ground.
Let me know if there is anything else we can do for you,


Otto Zimmermann
Marketing Manager
March Manufacturing
847 729 5300
847 729 7062(Fax)
[email protected]


I think it would be safe to assume that this would also apply to the Chugger pumps, but again, it would be prudent to check with the Chugger people to confirm.

 
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:24 PM   #10
Ohio-Ed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catt22 View Post
I emailed March Pumps on the mounting question. This is the response I received a few minutes ago:

The 809-PL-HS can be mounted using only the pipes for support. It may
either be horizontal or vertical, but if vertical, make sure the motor is
the end closest to the ground.
Let me know if there is anything else we can do for you,


Otto Zimmermann
Marketing Manager
March Manufacturing
847 729 5300
847 729 7062(Fax)
[email protected]


I think it would be safe to assume that this would also apply to the Chugger pumps, but again, it would be prudent to check with the Chugger people to confirm.
You, my friend, ARE THE MAN!!!

Thanks.
Ed

 
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