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Old 11-20-2010, 06:38 PM   #1
GordonT
 
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Recipe Type: All Grain   
Yeast: Wyeast Ardennes   
Yeast Starter: Wyeast Smack pack   
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: none   
Batch Size (Gallons): 5   
Original Gravity: 1075   
Final Gravity: 1015   
IBU: 7   
Boiling Time (Minutes): 90   
Color: Golden   
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 1 week   
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 1 week   
Tasting Notes: Malty, spicy and a hint of smoke   

I've been working this beer clone for a couple of years now. In side by side tests with the original I find theirs is drier and has a tang to it that mine hasn't. I think theirs may come from a larger addition of sugar. Most people prefer mine to the original. Something to be said for fresh beer.

16 lbs lager malt
1.1 lbs white syrup

1 oz Spalt or Perle in the boil
.5 Hallertau at 30
3/4 oz Saaz at 5

.4 oz crushed coriander seed at the end of the boil

This beer should be fermented at a high temperature. Living in a temperate part of the world I often have to resort to a brew belt to up the temp.

This is a favorite of mine and one I try to keep on tap as a standard. It is fine to drink young and is usually good after just a week or so in the keg.

It changes over time, dries out and becomes more like an aperitif. An uncomplicated recipe that produces a beer of great complexity.

 
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Old 11-20-2010, 06:52 PM   #2
jbrookeiv
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Mash temp?

What's white syrup? Which lager malt do you use? This sounds perfect since I live in South FL, it's around 75 in my apartment.
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Primary: Session IPA | Fresh Pressed Cider w/ WLP510 and strawberries | Fresh Pressed Cider w/ WLP002 and dry hops

 
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Old 11-20-2010, 07:59 PM   #3
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I went with my usual mash schedule of 130 for 15, 150 for 30 and 160 for 15. I'm now leaving the temp close to 160 as I sparge. To make this drier mash at 150 for 45 minutes.

I'm from Canada so I'm using a malt from Saskatchewan called Prairie Malt. You could use Belgian malt but I'm not sure it is worth the price difference.

There has been a lot of discussion about what type of sugars Belgian brewers are using in their beers. Rock candi is not what they are using any longer. They are using simple cane sugars. The syrups I've decided to use are from my grocery store. I buy either Rogers or Crown 500 ml bottles (about 1.1 lbs). There are three varieties to choose from Golden dark syrup, Golden (lighter) and white. The white is pure white so keeps the beer from having any added colour. La Chouffe is a very pale beer.

75 is a great temperature for this yeast. I read recently that a well known brewery using a similar yeast has had their temps go as high as the 90s and the beer was still good. Good luck with it.

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Mash temp?

What's white syrup? Which lager malt do you use? This sounds perfect since I live in South FL, it's around 75 in my apartment.

 
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Old 11-20-2010, 08:36 PM   #4
jbrookeiv
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Do you think Safbrew T58 would work for this? Want to order from Farmhouse Brewing, they have Pilsner grain on sale.
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Originally Posted by Homebrewtastic View Post
I think a more pertinent question is where is AB and Miller Coors getting all of their horse urine?
Primary: Session IPA | Fresh Pressed Cider w/ WLP510 and strawberries | Fresh Pressed Cider w/ WLP002 and dry hops

 
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Old 11-20-2010, 08:39 PM   #5
jbrookeiv
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Also, when do you add the syrup?
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Originally Posted by Homebrewtastic View Post
I think a more pertinent question is where is AB and Miller Coors getting all of their horse urine?
Primary: Session IPA | Fresh Pressed Cider w/ WLP510 and strawberries | Fresh Pressed Cider w/ WLP002 and dry hops

 
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Old 11-20-2010, 10:23 PM   #6
GordonT
 
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I've never used safBrew so I can't comment on it but I have used Wyeast and White Labs extensively and they are both good.

Syrup is added at the beginning of the boil. If you have a local homebrew supply store I'd go with them if possible, for yeast and grains. Not only do you support local business but you can forego the costly freight charges, especially on grain.

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Also, when do you add the syrup?

 
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Old 11-21-2010, 12:26 PM   #7
Houblon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonT View Post
I've been working this beer clone for a couple of years now. In side by side tests with the original I find theirs is drier and has a tang to it that mine hasn't. I think theirs may come from a larger addition of sugar. Most people prefer mine to the original. Something to be said for fresh beer.
.
If I may add to this and give you some ideas to try if you want
FG is too high - try it closer to FG 1.08 - 1.012
Bump up the IBU`s
Styrian and Saaz, and coriander

A 1.5L starter is needed to produce a cleaner flavor.
Primary for 14 days as that yeast needs some time to clean up.


<Mash Temps >
62 C = 143.6 F >>20min
68 C = 154.4 F >>70min

Ferment around 75-77F,
the brewery goes up to > 26 C = 78.8 F ,but I and others have a hardtime at that temp as the yeast tries to takeoff along with producing too many fusels. They say that yeast dies above 80F.

Belgian malt would be best and you can taste the difference, but I understand with your situation.

The Belgian brewers use beet sugar and /or syrups from places such as>
BELGOSUC SUGAR SPECIALITIES
http://www.belgosuc.be/EN/productgamma.asp

But plain cane sugar works just fine, I use beet sugar only as a `tip of the hat to the Belgian brewers. Achouffe only use pilsner malt & sugars(syrups) in all the beers.

I've visited Achouffe twice now for beer research
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/z...u/Img_0405.jpg
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/z...u/Img_0402.jpg
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/z...u/Img_0401.jpg
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Old 11-21-2010, 05:07 PM   #8
GordonT
 
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Thanks Houblon these points will all be added to the recipe.

Unfortunately where I live only the most basic malts are available. Even Special B took me ages to find. No Styrian either so I'll have to continue with Hallertau as a substitute.

The mash schedule and increased primary length should get me closer to the drier FG of the original.

What do you think of the volume of syrup I'm adding?

'Research'! What a great idea. That's what I'll tell my wife. No dear its not a holiday at all, its Research

 
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Old 11-21-2010, 06:45 PM   #9
Houblon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonT View Post
What do you think of the volume of syrup I'm adding?

'Research'! What a great idea. That's what I'll tell my wife. No dear its not a holiday at all, its Research

Crown or Rogers golden corn syrup? if so its glucose,glucose-frutose,water,salt,vanillin(Vanilla)


What you posted is roughly 4-6% sugar? you could go up and drop some grain, this too will get your FG down. My houblon clone is 15.7% sugar but its a lighter color beer than `la chouffe and FG is 1.006-8 everytime.


I've used another brand of cane syrup before in different beers, in the lighter beer the vanilla came thur thankfully it was a nice touch.
So thats something you may want to think about if adding more, heck you could just add plain sugar along with your normal amount.



Adjusting the sugar ratio can get tricking as it effects the body & color really fast, it took me awhile to settle on what I feel is correct (houblon copy).

So creep up on the sugar-grain ratio and if you feel the color is too lite just add it before the boil, it will darken over the 90min boil.


Research is what my wife calls it Next thing you know your taking a couple trips per yr $$$$...
But hey somebody has to do the hardwork of visiting breweries and sampling all those beer
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Old 11-23-2010, 03:57 PM   #10
GordonT
 
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All good information, thanks again for your input. Next time around I'll do a bit of adjustment to the recipe. I'm looking forward to brewing this again.

 
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