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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > using apple juice/cider as mash liquid?
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:35 AM   #1
JLem
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Default using apple juice/cider as mash liquid?

I'm interested in making something along the lines of Brandon O's graff. His recipe calls for steeping some specialty malts and using a couple pounds of DME in a gallon of water and then adding that to 4 gallons of apple juice. Now, I have nothing against steeping grains and DME, but I have this nice MLT sitting here and I was thinking I could just do a small mash instead. This got me thinking though that perhaps I could use the apple juice as my mash liquid. Of course this means I would end up boiling the juice, so the pectins would set, but I have some pectic enzyme so I'm not overly worried about that. I am however, worried about the mash pH. I assume that apple juice will have a lower pH than the water I use. Would I need to compensate for this? Anyone tried using something other than water in the mash?


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Old 11-18-2010, 03:54 AM   #2
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How about conducting an experiment - say, a cup of grains, some AJ, in a suitable small vessel. Do an iodine test after an hour. Post results here.

My guess is that no one has tried this, so you are the pathfinder.


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Old 11-18-2010, 12:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frazier View Post
How about conducting an experiment - say, a cup of grains, some AJ, in a suitable small vessel. Do an iodine test after an hour. Post results here.

My guess is that no one has tried this, so you are the pathfinder.
Well, I'm not sure about being the pathfinder (is that like being the keymaster?) but I am probably going to give this a try. I'll report back.

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Old 11-18-2010, 05:16 PM   #4
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The problem I see with using AJ in this way is that it starts out with a SG of ~1.050, and it’s not clear to me how this will affect the solubility of the additional sugars from the grain. Also, the grains absorb liquid from the mash, which if you’re using AJ (instead of water) means you are losing sugar to the grains, at the same time you are trying to get sugar out of them.

So when you conduct your experiment, be sure to measure volume in, volume out, SG in, SG out.
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Old 11-21-2010, 06:11 PM   #5
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I decided not to make the graff at this time...so the apple cider in the mash experiment will have to wait.
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Old 10-14-2014, 05:46 AM   #6
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Hey All!

I stumbled upon this thread while looking for a potential solution to an entirely different problem - having pressed apple juice that still had starch in it due to pressing unripe apples.

I was looking for a way to convert the starches in the apple juice into sugars without the use of commercial amylase. One potential solution I came up with was to simply incorporate the apple juice into a mash, wherein I hoped the malt's amylase would convert some/all of the starches.

BUT I was worried about Mash pH impacting starch conversion, and thought that in order to reduce the risk of totally stalling the mash, I would do a two-step mash: 1) Mash normally, 2) add apple juice as a 2nd infusion.

Before testing this on a full batch, I decided to do a small test-batch. Here are the photos and the result! NOTE: I used 3/1, malt/wheat for the mash. I am SURE that this impacted my results re: residual starch at the end of the mash. There WAS residual starch at the end of BOTH the pre-and post-apple-juice-addition mash steps. I'm posting this here as an "experiment one" with more to follow!

Process:
-Mash-in with 1 cup hot-water-tap water and 3/1, malt/wheat, 1 cup water (topped up to 1.25 cups after 30 mins)

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-Heat to temperature in double boiler. Maintain temperature around 150f by adding direct heat.

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-After 60 mins, do starch test. Woops! Still starchey. Mash for 30 more mins at 150f.

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-Add apple juice and direct-heat until back up to 150f. Maintain for 30 mins.
-"Mash Out" by heating to 170f and straining
-Boil for 15 mins.

Final starch test:
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Final product in container:
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Notes: Mash temp was not maintained perfectly at 150f. Max temp: 158f. Min temp: 144f. (generally held between 148-154f)

As I said, nothing conclusive here as to whether you can mash with apple juice only (I suspect no due to pH) OR if apple starch can be effectively converted (as I suspect all or some of the starches at the end were from the wheat and not from the apple).

Will follow up with my second experiment!


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