Understanding Dextrin, Lactose, crystal malt and mash temp - Home Brew Forums
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Beer Discussion > Understanding Dextrin, Lactose, crystal malt and mash temp
Cool Brewing Corny 5G & Mini Giveaway

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-10-2010, 05:29 PM   #1
nilo
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 724
Liked 25 Times on 21 Posts


I'm trying to make sense of different information I found about the end result of using these ingredients on a recipe.
Most confusing part to me is to separate the idea of a high FG and sweetness.
It seems that points that come from dextrin malt or powder or by mashing at higher temp do not make the beer sweeter, but add "body" and improve head retention.
Anyway, I though we could discuss this and come up with a better understanding of what to use for the intended results.
That been said, please comment on what you think each ingredient below adds on a recipe, regarding body, sweetness, head improvement.
1) dextrin malt or powder/ carapils
2) crystal malt
3) mash at higher temperature
4) lactose

This is my humble opinion:
1) mouth feel and head improvement. Some people may experience increase of sweetness. Most people would not notice that.
2) mouth feel and sweetness
3) mouth feel and head retention
4) mouth feel and sweetness. Make a creamier finish.



Piratwolf Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2010, 05:46 PM   #2
Edcculus
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 4,539
Liked 48 Times on 45 Posts


1 - dextrin malt - helps add...wait for it...dextrins to the beer. Dextrins are long chained sugars. The longer chained the sugar is, the less sweet it is. That is why lactose is much less sweet than fructose. We don't pick dextrins up as sweet. They do add body in the sense that they make the solution "thicker". Think of the body of heavy cream vs skim milk. Although we are talking about fat in this case, heavy cream has more "stuff" in solution, therefore it is fuller bodied. Same thing with dextrins.

2 - crystal malt - adds caramel flavors (depending on how dark). C60 will be more caramel while C120 will add darker raisin, and plum flavors. Crystal malts also add a degree of dextrins and a little sweetness.

3 - Mash at higher temp - Temperatures above 155░F favor alpha-amalayse. Alpha-amalayse or the "debranching" enzyme breaks down starches into smaller chunks from the middle. These chunks tend to be larger dextrins instead of a small sweet sugars. Therefore, mashing at a higher temp will give a more dextrinous wort.

4 - Lactose is not an extremely sweet sugar, therefore will give the beer more body and make it "creamier" as you say.



 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2010, 05:47 PM   #3
JonK331
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 2,098
Liked 32 Times on 32 Posts
Likes Given: 6


1) Unfermentable sugars, head retention, sweetness, higher FG
2) Sweetness, caramel/toffee flavors, higher FG
3) I'm not sure this would help with head retention but will make a less fermentable wort (higher FG), mashing lower and adding more crystal malt or other unfermentables gives similar results to mashing higher. A protein rest at 125-130F will increase head retention.
4) Unfermenatable, adds sweetness and creamy finish, higher FG

The sweetness thing is very subjective. I'm really sensitive to sweetness and don't really like it in my beers, anything above 1.015 or so, depending on the style, is too sweet for me, no matter where the sweetness comes from. This might, however, be very different for others.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2010, 05:53 PM   #4
wildwest450
Registered User
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,969
Liked 172 Times on 157 Posts
Likes Given: 4


Don't forget that crystal malt add body and head retention.




.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2010, 06:03 PM   #5
WildGingerBrewing
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
WildGingerBrewing's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 15,934
Liked 2269 Times on 2188 Posts
Likes Given: 10


Quote:
Originally Posted by nilo View Post
1) dextrin malt or powder/ carapils
2) crystal malt
3) mash at higher temperature
4) lactose
1) adds body and head retention
2) caramel flavors
3) adds body
4) creaminess
__________________
Doritos are evil. Taco Bell is evil. Ergo, Ginger is Satan. - Shecky
I should have known the thought of Ginger's wang flopping would be enough to kill the TR. - KCBrewer
I'm getting terribly curious about Ginger's pp. - SharonaZamboni

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 02:23 PM   #6
craigevo
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Singapore
Posts: 50
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 1


So did anyone conclude if mashing at higher temps gives a sweeter beer or not ?

Seems to me that if alpha amylase produce more dextrins and less fermentable sugar - and, as others have stated, dextrins are not really sweet - then you should actually have a less sweet beer if you mash at a higher temp since the sweetness comes from residual FERMENTABLE (ie NOT dextrins) sugars

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 02:33 PM   #7
ArcaneXor
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,465
Liked 117 Times on 104 Posts
Likes Given: 33


Mashing higher primarily affects mouthfeel. Whether or not it translates into a sweeter beer depends on the ingredients, but it's generally the case. Those long-chain sugars may be less sweet than monosaccharides and disaccharides, but they are also less fermentable or unfermentable by saccharomyces cerevisiae. In other words, eventhough you start out with a less-sweet wort, you end up with a sweeter beer.

Reason: typo

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 03:13 PM   #8
res291que
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
res291que's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Thurmont, Maryland
Posts: 625
Liked 62 Times on 49 Posts
Likes Given: 5


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaneXor
Mashing higher primarily affects mouthfeel. Whether or not it translated into a sweeter beer depends on the ingredients, but it's generally the case. Those long-chain sugars may be less sweet and monosaccharides and disaccharides, but they are also less fermentable or unfermentable by saccharomyces cerevisiae. In other words, eventhough you start out with a less-sweet wort, you end up with a sweeter beer.
Is this for all the above, including mashing at a higher temp or just if adding dextrin or lactose?

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 03:25 PM   #9
ArcaneXor
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,465
Liked 117 Times on 104 Posts
Likes Given: 33


Quote:
Originally Posted by res291que View Post
Is this for all the above, including mashing at a higher temp or just if adding dextrin or lactose?
I was referring to mashing.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 03:30 PM   #10
res291que
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
res291que's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Thurmont, Maryland
Posts: 625
Liked 62 Times on 49 Posts
Likes Given: 5


Just to clarify then mashing higher and/or the addition of other sugars will make for sweeter beers? Thanks



 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



Forum Jump