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Old 10-20-2010, 03:53 PM   #1
NuclearRich
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Default Party-Gyle Barleywine

I have been planning a big birthday barleywine to be ready in about a year and a half. The more reading I have dnoe, the more excitement I have, and the more reading I do. I happened upon some party-gyle threads and have been even more enthralled. I haven't been this excited since I started my first batch.
I want a big english style barley wine. I have a huge MLT, so I will have no problem with the giant grainbill. I am guessing that I will have a good 1.100+ gravity from the first runnings in appx my boil volume. That leaves plenty of sugar in the tun. Enter party-gyle. I am hoping I can sparge 10gals and split into 2 batches, potentially using different yeast or hops on the 2nd runnings and ferment them out seperately (boil them seperate as well... kettle isn't big enough to boil 11-12gals)
Obviously I am still in the early stages of development. I have a few questions to ponder while the recipe comes to life.

1) What would make a good 2nd runnings style off of an english barleywine base? There will likely be a ton of maris otter, some munich, and a bit of crystal. Capping is always an option. Porter? Brown Ale? IPA? The mash will be conducted at ~149F to keep the BW fermentable.
2)Is 10gals a pipe dream? I don't want to oversparge, and I will monitor the gravity of the sparge and TOS if need be. I would like to plan this to be epic if possible, so is it?
3)crap... I know I had more... I'll be sure to ask!

Any and all input is appreciated!


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Old 10-20-2010, 04:56 PM   #2
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I like the idea of capping it with chocolate and black malts for a porter. You may want to read this link.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php...Gyle_Simulator


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Old 10-20-2010, 05:08 PM   #3
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I am a rank amatuer so keep that in mind. I have made 2 partigyles however.. one has been gone a while and the other is in primary. First off I would make my barleywine the " epic" brew and make the partigyle more of a quaffer. I just brewed a barleywine with only 2 row.. no sugars or anything yet and my OG after boiling was 1.102..... I made a 5 gallon partigyle from that . sparged with 6 gallons boiled down to 5 and only had an OG of 1.032 so IMO yes a 10 gallon batch is a pipe dream.
The partigyle I drank already was an IPA style and the bitterness was way over the top because there was not enough malt to back it up. I would keep the IBU's low and just make a 5 gallon easy drinker.
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Old 10-20-2010, 06:49 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by OHIOSTEVE View Post
First off I would make my barleywine the " epic" brew and make the partigyle more of a quaffer.
"Epic" is more appropriate for the grist, I suppose. I know the 2nd batch will be much less epic than the BW. Interesting input, thanks. Can you give me more details on your recent parti-gyle? I just want to compare (Its hard to kill a dream! ). Total grist weight? Fly or batch sparge? Efficiency of conversion/SG pre-boil?

A delicious pale ale in 5gals would be preferred over 10gals of a Budweiser Select 55 clone, lol... I don't want it have a gravity that is just silly to use. I like water and all, but I want all this work to go into making REAL beer.
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Old 10-20-2010, 07:06 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Conroe View Post
I like the idea of capping it with chocolate and black malts for a porter. You may want to read this link.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php...Gyle_Simulator
A Pipe dream's revelry!

According to this spreadsheet, with 35lbs grain, 1.25qt/lb (44qts) mash thickness, the first runnings will be 6.8gals of 1.094; boiled to 5.5gals - 1.105.
Second runnings with a 12gal sparge will give me 12gals of 1.032; boiled to 5gals each - 1.035.

It seems like it is possible! I need to tweak the calculator with a real recipe, and think about a slightly higher OG for the second batch... I could always add more, lol.

Awesome link Conroe, thanks so much. Even if I do 5gals for the 2nd, it will still be a great tool.
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Old 10-20-2010, 07:17 PM   #6
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You can always add some DME to fortify the 2nd pretty cheaply.
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Old 10-20-2010, 09:03 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by NuclearRich View Post
"Epic" is more appropriate for the grist, I suppose. I know the 2nd batch will be much less epic than the BW. Interesting input, thanks. Can you give me more details on your recent parti-gyle? I just want to compare (Its hard to kill a dream! ). Total grist weight? Fly or batch sparge? Efficiency of conversion/SG pre-boil?

A delicious pale ale in 5gals would be preferred over 10gals of a Budweiser Select 55 clone, lol... I don't want it have a gravity that is just silly to use. I like water and all, but I want all this work to go into making REAL beer.
25 pounds of 2 row...Mashed at 150 degrees for 60 minutes.... Single batch sparged with 185 degree water ran off 7 gallons boiled down to 5.5........OG 1.102......... Added 6 gallons of water to the grains and stirred like crazy.. drained off 6 gallons boiled down to 5 ....OG 1.032. I figure my efficiency on the Barleywine was right at 60%. On a normal brew I am around 75% but the big grain bill knocks the crap outta my efficiency.
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Old 10-21-2010, 12:53 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by OHIOSTEVE View Post
Single batch sparged with 185 degree water ran off 7 gallons...
Single batch sparge? So you drained the original mash and then refilled with the sparge water and drained again to get your 7 gallons? I may just be misinterperating that, but if that is the case then your first and second runnings contributed to the BW and your third runnings were for your second beer... which would really make sense with the lower gravity.

hmmm... on second thought... I ran the numbers through the batch sparge simulator, and the second runnings would produce a beer of your caliber, so I probably am just confused on your wording (easy to do to me ). Still keeping my musings posted, as it may shed light.

One other discrepancy that might help as well: It seems you had a mash thickness of around 1.6qt/lb if I calculate correctly. Between the ~10lb of grain difference in our bills, and the mash thickness (I plan on using 1.25qt/lb), it may have given you a big difference in the second beer. I theorize that the thinner mash ran off more of the sugar into the first beer, leaving less for the second. Does this make sense, or is this more pipe dreaming of mine?

In either case, thinking of how to brew beer will hopefully help lead to better beer, so its all food for thought!
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:26 AM   #9
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For what it's worth I just did this exact same thing on Monday, a party-gyle with a BarleyWine in the first runnings and an IPA in the second runnings.

My MLT is only 10 gallons and I was OK with using sugar for 10% of fermentables here was my procedure:
Recipe:
27lbs of 2-row
1.5 lbs of 40l Crystal
1.5 lbs of 120l Crystal

I added 28L of water (max capacity) to my tun and mashed at 151F for 90 minutes
Drained this and added 16L (again max capacity) of sparge water at approx 192 to sparge at 170 for 15 minutes
drained this completely giving me around 8.5 gallons of wort, 90 minute boil, 1st bittering hops 3oz of Columbus at 75 minutes and 3 oz of Cascade for aroma hops at 5 minutes
with 15 minutes to go took a reading calculated 4lbs of corn sugar would give me OG of 1.112 added sugar

After I took out my first sparge I added another 16L to let it sit at 160F for the 1st 60 minutes of the BarleyWine boil
I drained that and added a final sparge of 14L and let that sit 20 more minutes then drained
so as my 90 minute boil wrapped up my 3rd and 4th sparges gave me 7.5 gallons of wort which was 1.050 which after boil off would be 6 gallons of 1.062
I did a ton of late hop additions 6 oz mix, 2 oz each of williamette, northern brewer and cascade added 1 oz every 5 minutes from 25 minutes to 1 minute

So there's my story, I got 6 gallons of BarleyWine at 1.112 and 6 gallons of an IPA at 1.062. If you take out the sugar added I get 12 gallons of beer at an average of 1.072 which BeerSmith tells me is 80% efficiency for that grain bill, I normally get 80-84% efficiency with my system.

My advice would be 2-fold
1. Focus on the strong BarleyWine and make sure you get the OG as high as you want if you have to take a little more wort and boil longer to get the volume down thats ok, also using sugar is ok to most say up to 10% of fermentables is fine.
2. Be flexible, I had up to 6lbs of sugar ready to go because I had no idea exactly where the runnings of the BarleyWine were going to be. Also for the IPA I was ready with sugar to top up if the OG was too low and was willing to decrease the hop amounts as well to match the SG.
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Old 10-21-2010, 01:28 PM   #10
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thanks Veinman! (Are you good are phlebotomy? They call me "Hands of God" for my skills) Encouraging post... I will likely be adding some sugar to the BW in any case, to aid in a full fermentation.

Pretty sure this project is getting the green light... next questions... ingredients

How much Maris Otter? I was thinking to do a 50/50 split of MO and basic pale 2row with a few others. Right now my concern (since I haven't ever actually used MO) is the flavor of the MO. I read that it imparts a slightly more malty character and that in this quantity (15lbs) it will be a bit bready. Lovely... this is an english barleywine. Just wondering... if I were to scale the MO:2row ratio up or down, how much would that effect flavor?
Other grains I am looking at adding include Munich, victory, malted rye, perhaps a tad of crystal in the mid-lovibond range.
I need to sample more rye beer before I commit to adding it myself, but I hear good things.

I think that I am leaning towards a brown ale for the 2nd... capping it for a good nutty, malty flavor most likely. Crystal malt on top is fine, right?


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