Coldbreak Brewing Giveaway - Open to All!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-05-2014, 08:15 PM   #921
Hermit
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Alternate Universe
Posts: 2,259
Liked 68 Times on 58 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by windycitybears1985 View Post
My apologies if this has been answered. I read through this entire thread about 4 months ago, but the search function doesn't seem to bring anything up. I do small batch BIAB and usually use about 5 gallons of 100% RO water for the mash and don't sparge. I recently used one of the brew water calculators and it had me add 17 and 34 ML of 10% phosphoric to a brown ale and a cream ale respectively. I thought this seemed high and now after kegging there is definitely a bitter aftertaste to these beers and they finished sweet with proper attenuation.

The question: Is there an addition that could be made to the original post or reply to this inquiry for acid additions by beer profile? I am seeming to have trouble locking in these figures and would rather not make another dumper batch. For example instead of 2% sauermalz for the baseline add ___ ML of 10% phosphoric acid, Soft water beers add ____ ML and beers with roast malt add ____ ML (or it sounds like just leave out altogether).

I really appreciate the help. For those newer brewers that need a KISS method for water profiles it would seem like an easy resource to make a chart by beer style. The chart would be based around 100% RO water that is built back up so everyone that uses the information would have a universal control. Maybe once provided this information I could put something together for the greater good. Thanks in advance for your help!
Brewer's Friend lets you specify mash pH and will give you the corresponding acid addition. Try that and see if you come up with the same numbers as your other program. In the end, there is no substitute for measuring pH. Grains will vary. You only get estimates based on the best available data from these programs.

The primer is a general guideline to get you started. The premise is it should always get you drinkable beer. Adding to it only adds to the complexity and confusion many have when first trying to understand what the water brings to the table. When Richard Feynman was writing a book about physics for the general public he was told every equation he added would lose readers. Kinda the same thing here. Get a second opinion from another program to see if it backs up the original. If it does, then your malts simply fall outside the norm of those tested. Not much can be done about that unless you start measuring pH directly.

And, there is no guarantee here your poor flavor is a result of mash pH unless you measure.


Hermit is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 03:22 PM   #922
windycitybears1985
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: chicago, il
Posts: 70
Liked 2 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Thanks Hermit. I agree with the PH reading. Can't fix a problem you can't properly identify. I found Brewer's Friend calculator more user friendly and the estimated acid addition went down from 17 ML to 5 so could be a big difference. I will keep tinkering.

2nd question: Since I downsized my brewing setup I may not be able to fit a full volume boil for 5 gallon batches in my kettle (10 gallon kettle with a biab setup). Should I be treating the top off water for the fermenter if I use RO water? Meaning adding CaCl and gypsum per calculator recommendations? Since it is BIAB maybe treat the top off water as sparge water per the Brewer's Friend water calculator??? Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew


windycitybears1985 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 04:13 PM   #923
Hermit
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Alternate Universe
Posts: 2,259
Liked 68 Times on 58 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by windycitybears1985 View Post
Thanks Hermit. I agree with the PH reading. Can't fix a problem you can't properly identify. I found Brewer's Friend calculator more user friendly and the estimated acid addition went down from 17 ML to 5 so could be a big difference. I will keep tinkering.

2nd question: Since I downsized my brewing setup I may not be able to fit a full volume boil for 5 gallon batches in my kettle (10 gallon kettle with a biab setup). Should I be treating the top off water for the fermenter if I use RO water? Meaning adding CaCl and gypsum per calculator recommendations? Since it is BIAB maybe treat the top off water as sparge water per the Brewer's Friend water calculator??? Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
Personally, I'd just focus on the mash and get that right. The top off water never hits the grain and there probably isn't that much of it anyhow.
Hermit is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 06:33 PM   #924
windycitybears1985
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: chicago, il
Posts: 70
Liked 2 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Thanks again!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
windycitybears1985 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2014, 03:37 PM   #925
davehenry
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 97
Liked 5 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Excellent thread. So far I've read through the the first third and last third. I will finish the middle when I get more time. The only thing that would make the primer better would be to add beer style examples so that folks don't need to keep asking where there next brew fits in. Thanks for posting this!


Brewing up a storm in Langley, British Columbia
davehenry is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2014, 05:12 PM   #926
davehenry
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 97
Liked 5 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I may have missed this during my reading. By using 2% sauermalz do you mean work it in as 2% of the grain bill or add it as on top of the existing grain bill?


Brewing up a storm in Langley, British Columbia
davehenry is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2014, 07:52 PM   #927
kaconga
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Rathdrum, Idaho
Posts: 991
Liked 140 Times on 108 Posts
Likes Given: 47

Default

I work it into my grainbill. Seems to work fine. The difference between adding it to and working it in is pretty negligible.

Edit: just ran some numbers in Brewr and it was the same either way I did it for a 12 lb grain bill. So I think it doesn't matter which way.
kaconga is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2014, 08:01 PM   #928
davehenry
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 97
Liked 5 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Thanks!


Brewing up a storm in Langley, British Columbia
davehenry is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2014, 11:27 PM   #929
davehenry
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 97
Liked 5 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Thanks!


Brewing up a storm in Langley, British Columbia
davehenry is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2014, 12:38 AM   #930
ajdelange
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 7,591
Liked 994 Times on 790 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default

The intention is that 2% means 2% of the grist is sauermalz and the rest is something else e.g. 2 lbs sauermalz and 98 lbs of other malts. But, as has been observed, if you have 100 lbs of grain and add 2 lbs of sauermaltz the percentage will be 100*2/102 = 1.96%. Doesn't much matter, thus, which way you choose to interpret it.


ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My Water Chemistry Gremlyn Brew Science 23 12-22-2012 02:22 PM
Question on Water Chemistry meschaefer Brew Science 7 11-02-2010 09:39 PM
Help: Water Chemistry - ppm vs mg/L carp Brew Science 2 10-10-2009 06:54 PM
water chemistry - adjust top-up water? JLem Brew Science 12 09-23-2009 12:11 AM
Water chemistry noob Yooper Brew Science 48 09-03-2009 07:21 PM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS