Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-25-2011, 06:39 PM   #161
RDWHAHB
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 834
Liked 13 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

This suggests it is close to RO:
The Northern Brewer Homebrew Forum • View topic - Primo Water Corp


RDWHAHB is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2011, 07:42 PM   #162
ajdelange
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 7,410
Liked 946 Times on 749 Posts
Likes Given: 25

Default

I bought a house this summer and couldn't drink the water because it contained 300 mg/L bicarbonate. So we went to the super market and bought spring water. It wasn't much better. Bicarbonate 200 mg/L. Yuck. How can anyone drink that stuff? The message is that some bottled water contains a lot of bicarbonate. The first holding of a brewing water chemist is "bicarbonate = bad". So no, I would not brew with this water until I had measured the alkalinity.


ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2011, 07:47 PM   #163
RDWHAHB
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 834
Liked 13 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Thanks for the reply. I really bought the stuff for the container, so now I'll get some $0.40/gal RO. Going to add minerals per you're original recs for baseline. If that improves the beer, then I will dig a little farther into this chemistry business!
RDWHAHB is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2011, 08:18 AM   #164
Veedo
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: U.P., Michigan
Posts: 464
Liked 19 Times on 15 Posts
Likes Given: 14

Default

would this primer work for the BIAB (brew in a bag) method? would additions remain the same? i was planning on brewing a cream ale this week, but do not have any of the required additions yet. i may have to make a run to my nearest LHBS. i have been extract brewing with water out of a natural spring close to where i live, the measured ph was 8.3, and the only other thing i know about it is the total hardness is 220ppm. with this being my first attempt at all grain, i want to make the best of it. i have a ph meter. would i be ok mixing ro water with the spring water, along with the additions mentioned in the primer?
Veedo is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2011, 11:46 AM   #165
ajdelange
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 7,410
Liked 946 Times on 749 Posts
Likes Given: 25

Default

Don't know anything about BIAB but as it does not apparently involve extract conversion of grain starches to sugars must be involved. Thus the principles of the Primer would apply.

If you check the Primer again you will see that the additions are only made to low ion content water such as RO water, DI water or water that is naturally low in minerals like that of the Pacific northwest. In your case you are sporting appreciable hardness and a high pH which suggests that there will be a lot of alkalinity. Thus you will need to add acid in some form to get pH low enough.

You should get an analysis of your water. Ward labs does it for, I think, $25 or something like that. The best advice I can give with what you know at this point is to dilute your water with RO water in a 1:9 ratio. This will reduce your hardness to 22 and also lower the alkalinity by the same ratio. At that point the water is considered soft enough that the Primer recommended additions apply.
ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2011, 05:10 PM   #166
Veedo
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: U.P., Michigan
Posts: 464
Liked 19 Times on 15 Posts
Likes Given: 14

Default

ok, gotcha. is it worth fussing with the 1/9 ration to keep some of the hardness? interesting thread, and one of the simplest i have found yet. water chemistry is not something i (or probably most brewers) want to go greatly in depth with, so this really helps. any idea what culligan bottled water is? thanks for this thread!
Veedo is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2011, 09:21 PM   #167
ajdelange
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 7,410
Liked 946 Times on 749 Posts
Likes Given: 25

Default

Many people (including me) keep 10% of the tap water just to maintain "traces" of the other mineral in the tap water. It's not really necessary (because of the mineral content of the malt) but it is somehow comforting.

No idea about the Culligan water. The analysis should be either on the label or on their website or available from Culligan.
ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 04:06 AM   #168
Veedo
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: U.P., Michigan
Posts: 464
Liked 19 Times on 15 Posts
Likes Given: 14

Default

ok, this might be another odd question. with biab brewing, you start out with all of your boil water at once. so i would have 7.5 gallons in my brew kettle for a 60 minute boil roughly. would i add the same amount of salts and Sauermalz per the primer, or would i need to add more? would it be better to start with a lower volume for mashing, then top off with ro/di water before i start the boil? if so, would i need to treat the top off water also? does the ph matter after the mashing is complete? i hope i am not bringing this thread off topic too much.
Veedo is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 12:47 PM   #169
ajdelange
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 7,410
Liked 946 Times on 749 Posts
Likes Given: 25

Default

If you are taking this too far off topic the moderator will move it to a new thread and that has been done in the past.

The pH does matter after the mash is complete. In general if the mash pH is correct the pH will be proper for all the other steps. For example, if mash pH is 5.3 - 5.4 the pH at the completion of the boil will probably fall between 5.1 and 5.2. If this is not the case the brewer can add acid or, in some cases, additional salts to the kettle and some do this. But these are not the KISS techniques of KISS the primer. Depending on the size of the "HLT" it is usually simplest to treat the entire volume of water to be used in the brew for whatever purpose at the outset. There is another reason for doing it this way and that is that some of the calcium added to the mash water will be precipitated in the mash and kette. If you want to carry calcium over to the fermenter (and you usually do) you would want the makeup and sparge water to contain calcium as well Conversely sulfate and chloride will be concentrated in the boil so as you can see you can make this pretty complicated if you want to. Much easiest (IMO) to treat all the water the same way at one time.
ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 03:53 PM   #170
Veedo
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: U.P., Michigan
Posts: 464
Liked 19 Times on 15 Posts
Likes Given: 14

Default

ok, i missed the part in the primer where it said "to each 5 gallons of water treated", sorry about that.

say i started out with the 7.5 gallons in my kettle, i would add 1.5 tsp of calcium chloride, correct? now, is the sauermalz addition 2% per 5 gallons also? would i up it to 3% to treat the entire 7.5 gallons, or would one be better off started at 2%, mash, check ph and add more if needed?


Veedo is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My Water Chemistry Gremlyn Brew Science 23 12-22-2012 01:22 PM
Question on Water Chemistry meschaefer Brew Science 7 11-02-2010 09:39 PM
Help: Water Chemistry - ppm vs mg/L carp Brew Science 2 10-10-2009 06:54 PM
water chemistry - adjust top-up water? JLem Brew Science 12 09-23-2009 12:11 AM
Water chemistry noob Yooper Brew Science 48 09-03-2009 07:21 PM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS