HBT 2015 Big Giveaway - Winners Drawn - 24 Hours to Claim!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > confused - pH, alkalinity, etc.
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-20-2010, 06:48 PM   #1
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Thiensville, Wisconsin
Posts: 7,245
Liked 307 Times on 255 Posts
Likes Given: 434

Default confused - pH, alkalinity, etc.

i got my water report. it reads:


pH: 7.6
TDS Est: 599
EC: 0.93
Cations 9.3
Anions 9.1
Sodium 211
Calcium 1
Magnesium 1
Potassium <1
Total Hardness 3
Nitrate 0.3
Sulfur 14
CO3 <1
HCO3 352
Chloride 85
Total Alkalinity 288

so, my question is, does my water really have a pH of 7.6 if the alkalinity is 288? Cause when i throw 288 into the spreadsheet i get 6.21
motobrewer is online now
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2010, 07:24 PM   #2
Saccharomyces
Be good to your yeast...
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Saccharomyces's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Pflugerville, Texas
Posts: 5,444
Liked 95 Times on 56 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by motobrewer View Post
i got my water report
...
so, my question is, does my water really have a pH of 7.6 if the alkalinity is 288? Cause when i throw 288 into the spreadsheet i get 6.21
Most likely yes, though you could check it with a pH meter if you can find one to borrow.

Looking at the numbers it appears your water has been though a water softener? Almost no calcium/magnesium, and high sodium chloride levels. I suggest you find a tap that doesn't get softened water, and try again. As it is, this water is not suitable for brewing.
__________________
[How to Calculate Mash Efficiency | Do I Need a Yeast Starter? | My Ghetto Fermentation Chamber | Twitter | 6 Gal. HDPE Fermenters | Slanting Yeast | No Sparge Brewing]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soperbrew
big brother only monitors facebook and untappd
Saccharomyces is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2010, 07:30 PM   #3
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Thiensville, Wisconsin
Posts: 7,245
Liked 307 Times on 255 Posts
Likes Given: 434

Default

oh yeah, it's run thru the softner. we're on a well, and the stuff coming out of my holding tank is much less suitable for brewing.....

i usually cut it 50% with distilled and add a few salts.

but, why the big discrepancy between the ward pH and the calculated pH?
motobrewer is online now
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2010, 07:49 PM   #4
remilard
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 3,655
Liked 41 Times on 40 Posts

Default

How would a spreadsheet calculate the pH of your water with the info given. That is roughly the mash ph you would see with that water, are you sure the spreadsheet isn't estimating mash ph?
remilard is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2010, 07:59 PM   #5
ajdelange
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 7,190
Liked 883 Times on 716 Posts
Likes Given: 23

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by motobrewer View Post
so, my question is, does my water really have a pH of 7.6 if the alkalinity is 288? Cause when i throw 288 into the spreadsheet i get 6.21
What spreadsheet are you using? I'm not aware of any that calculate pH from alkalinity largely because that is impossible to do unless you make the an assumption such as that the dissolved CO2 must be in equilibrium with the atmosphere. Even then the calculations are more involved than most of the spreadsheets out there incorporate. Your Ward Labs report is entirely consistent with a pH of 7.6. But it's also consistent with a pH of 6.21 except that at pH of 6.21 the water would be super saturated with CO2 gas. This would leave the water and it's pH would rise. If your spreadsheet assumed equilibrium with the atmosphere the pH would be close to 9. Even at 7.6 it is super saturated at 0.0080 atm. Equilibrium is 0.0003 atm but it can stay that way for a very long time (days) if you don't heat it.
ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2010, 08:19 PM   #6
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Thiensville, Wisconsin
Posts: 7,245
Liked 307 Times on 255 Posts
Likes Given: 434

Default

i'm using TH's sheet:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ez-...dsheet-135095/
motobrewer is online now
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2010, 08:33 PM   #7
Saccharomyces
Be good to your yeast...
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Saccharomyces's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Pflugerville, Texas
Posts: 5,444
Liked 95 Times on 56 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by motobrewer View Post
oh yeah, it's run thru the softner. we're on a well, and the stuff coming out of my holding tank is much less suitable for brewing.....

i usually cut it 50% with distilled and add a few salts.

but, why the big discrepancy between the ward pH and the calculated pH?
As long as you are adding at least 50ppm of calcium it's OK for the yeast but that sodium level is pretty high, which is why I wondered.

pH doesnt' matter as much as your mash pH. The Ward number seems a lot more likely than the one from your spreadsheet. Maybe the low level of calcium is throwing the formula off?
__________________
[How to Calculate Mash Efficiency | Do I Need a Yeast Starter? | My Ghetto Fermentation Chamber | Twitter | 6 Gal. HDPE Fermenters | Slanting Yeast | No Sparge Brewing]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soperbrew
big brother only monitors facebook and untappd
Saccharomyces is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2010, 08:36 PM   #8
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Thiensville, Wisconsin
Posts: 7,245
Liked 307 Times on 255 Posts
Likes Given: 434

Default

wait, i think the spreadsheet pH is mash pH....
motobrewer is online now
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 02:05 AM   #9
ajdelange
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 7,190
Liked 883 Times on 716 Posts
Likes Given: 23

Default

Yes, it is.
ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Harshness - How much alkalinity is too much?` Douglefish Brew Science 16 06-23-2011 04:01 PM
Residual Alkalinity vs. HCO3 goswell Brew Science 4 09-14-2010 01:58 PM
Water Questions: (Maxes for) Residual Alkalinity, Bicarbonate, Calcium Hop Brew Science 4 03-02-2010 01:38 PM
Got my full water profile but still confused! ThatGuyRyan Brew Science 4 10-27-2009 04:21 PM
CaCO3 vs NaHCO3 to increase residual alkalinity - tradeoffs? greenbirds Brew Science 5 09-04-2009 04:30 PM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS