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Old 09-27-2011, 04:55 AM   #151
weiht
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Dec 2009
singapore
Posts: 20

With all the talk about the ph variance between the spreadsheet n the measured at room temperature, I think it's like measuring ibu where it's abt adapting the calculation into ur process, kinda like using rager or tinseth and use it as a guide to give u an idea if what ur shooting for...

I think the spreadsheet is great, and the estimated ph calculations based on the malt bill is a excellent tool, one would be ignorant to think it wld be 100% accurate, but it's superb for giving me an idea of the ph it would be and the ballpark figure of salt additions I would need. I tried a few calculators and I find this to work best for me, simple and clear

 
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Old 09-27-2011, 10:29 AM   #152
deanocamino
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Sep 2011
fairmont, wv
Posts: 8

I have a question kind of pertaining to this spreadsheet and the subject. When I brought the spread sheet to another brewers attention. And said that after testing my results compared to the sheet, and it was accurate. He then stated that it did not account for water ph adjustment. I am assuming that he ment adjusting the waters profile to a certain place before mashing.

Why would you want to do that anyway if your biggest concern is the ph of the mash and making sure that it can handle all those different malts?

Unless you wanted to take you water compare it to palmers spread sheet make additions and then see were your ph is after you dough in. And then make more adjustments. That just seems like more work to me.

However I could be wrong on all accounts and be totally confused as I have only used the spread sheet once. So does someone want to hook a brother up with some info???

 
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:49 PM   #153
ajdelange
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weiht View Post
With all the talk about the ph variance between the spreadsheet n the measured at room temperature, I think it's like measuring ibu where it's abt adapting the calculation into ur process, kinda like using rager or tinseth and use it as a guide to give u an idea if what ur shooting for...
That's exactly what it is like. In all the cases mentioned a simple mathematical model has been developed which enables one to predict, with variable accuracy, respectively beer bitterness and mash pH. Rager and Tinseth represent 2 different models and each of the spreadsheets/calculators has its own model. Some of the models are better than others. But it is not enough to have the model. You must have good values for the parameters which the models require.

There is one big difference between the IBU and mash pH situations. Few brewers can check on the accuracy of an IBU prediction whereas it is simple to do so with the pH models. This enables you to apply "english" to the spreadsheet or calculator based on your experience with it. E.g. - it may tend to predict pH's that are a 0.1 low for Pils and be just on for British ales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weiht View Post
I think the spreadsheet is great, and the estimated ph calculations based on the malt bill is a excellent tool, one would be ignorant to think it wld be 100% accurate, but it's superb for giving me an idea of the ph it would be and the ballpark figure of salt additions I would need.
If only everyone understood that!

 
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:42 PM   #154
DSmith
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Sep 2011
Robbinsdale, MN
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On the topic of the EZ Water spreadsheet. Lactic acid additions seem to be applied to the mash volume only. Is this this way to do it for batch sparging?

I plan on making up all the water at once (keeping the final concentrations the same for mash and sparge water), but adding the lactic acid to the entire mash + sparge water doesn't seem to be what the consistent with the math within the spreadsheet...

 
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:55 PM   #155
remilard
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Nov 2008
Kansas City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSmith View Post
On the topic of the EZ Water spreadsheet. Lactic acid additions seem to be applied to the mash volume only. Is this this way to do it for batch sparging?

I plan on making up all the water at once (keeping the final concentrations the same for mash and sparge water), but adding the lactic acid to the entire mash + sparge water doesn't seem to be what the consistent with the math within the spreadsheet...
The spreadsheet models mash pH, and sparge water composition does not affect mash pH. As such, it makes perfect sense that the spreadsheet does not contemplate sparge water adjustment. That said, if you need to add acid to your mash water it would be prudent to add it to sparge water as well.

 
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Old 09-27-2011, 04:44 PM   #156
mabrungard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSmith View Post
On the topic of the EZ Water spreadsheet. Lactic acid additions seem to be applied to the mash volume only. Is this this way to do it for batch sparging?

I plan on making up all the water at once (keeping the final concentrations the same for mash and sparge water), but adding the lactic acid to the entire mash + sparge water doesn't seem to be what the consistent with the math within the spreadsheet...
The requirements for mash water and sparge water are not always the same. Sparge water should always have low alkalinity, mash water does not always have to have low alkalinity. EZ Water is properly focused on mash water adjustments.
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Old 09-29-2011, 02:06 PM   #157
deanocamino
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Sep 2011
fairmont, wv
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for those of you that use the ez calculator. According to palmers nomograph my water is best used for something around 10 srm. In making a stout I was thinking of using the nomograph to figure out what additions I need to make to get my "base" water profile to the appropriate levels for the given style.

Then enter that base into the "base water section" in the calculator and make addjust ments with additions from there.

Does this not make sence or do you think it is overkill????

 
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Old 09-29-2011, 09:35 PM   #158
ajdelange
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Unless dramatic changes have been made to that spreadsheet plugging in stout color will result in a calculated RA which is absurdly high. Implementing such an RA will result in a mash pH that is way too high with the result that the beer will be dull, flat, lifeless. If your water is decent you should be able to make a stout with it without treatment unless you use inordinate amounts of black/roast/crystal malt. It is therefore best that mash pH be checked with a pH meter at dough-in.

There is a correlation between beer color and the RA of the water with which it is made. There is a correlation between the performance of the DJIA and the length of girls' skirts. I wouldn't invest based on fashion and I wouldn't set brewing water parameters based on color.

 
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Old 03-21-2014, 01:06 PM   #159
Glot
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Sep 2013
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I have a very basic question I could not find the answer to. As grains etc alter pH, how does the calculator know what the initial water pH was?

 
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Old 03-21-2014, 01:57 PM   #160
ajdelange
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It doesn't and, to an almost unbelievable extent it doesn't need to. The object is to model the proton deficit of the water and most of the information about that is contained in the alkalinity number alone. For precise work the water pH does need to be considered but for the approximate/empirical models used in most spreadsheets the alkalinity alone suffices.

 
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