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Old 08-18-2010, 11:40 AM   #1
Morkin
 
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I had a Steam beer that did not take off from the 3 packets of wyeast that I pitched. After about 48-72 later, I didn't see any activity whatsoever, so I pitched a packet of rehydrated Muntons dry yeast just so that I would actually get some beer.

Now, almost 4 days after I pitched, it has picked up, but I'm not sure what is actually happening. The krausen looks very similiar to lager yeast, which would be coming from the cal lager yeast used before the muntons.

Could the dry yeast I used jump start the other yeast already in the beer that I "thought" was no good?

If so, will these two yeasts compeate with one another, or will the Wyeast Lager yeast overtake the Muntons dry yeast.

Fermenting at around 65 degrees.
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:24 PM   #2
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(answering from intuition, not from scientific knowledge)

They yeasts will both do their thing (if they are both active). Lager yeasts metabolize raffinose, a big sugar molecule that ale yeasts can't handle. You'll still get that benefit from the lager yeast.

I think it will be fine and might produce a competition-worthy cali common.

Odd that 3 smack packs didn't take off right away. Maybe you need to oxygenate your wort better before you pitch.
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Old 08-18-2010, 03:50 PM   #3
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If your fermenting at 65, the Ale yeast will love that, but the lager yeast will probably be very sluggish. California Lager yeasts do Ferment on the higher spectrum (I have fermented around 60) but I don't think the little buggers will like 65. So chances are you will get a bread like flavor from the large amounts of yeast that were pitched, but I can't see any "terrible" flavors being produced. Might try to get your temp down to 60 and see what happens.
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Old 08-18-2010, 04:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by passedpawn View Post
(answering from intuition, not from scientific knowledge)

They yeasts will both do their thing (if they are both active). Lager yeasts metabolize raffinose, a big sugar molecule that ale yeasts can't handle. You'll still get that benefit from the lager yeast.

I think it will be fine and might produce a competition-worthy cali common.

Odd that 3 smack packs didn't take off right away. Maybe you need to oxygenate your wort better before you pitch.

Raffinose is absent from brewing wort and melibiose is only present in very small amounts but both sugars are frequently mentioned in connection with the genetic difference between ale yeast (s. cerevisiae) and lager yeast (s. pastorianus).
http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index...=Carbohydrates
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Old 08-18-2010, 04:03 PM   #5
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I think you did not have proper oxygen in your wort or a PH problem
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Old 08-18-2010, 06:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton View Post
Raffinose is absent from brewing wort and melibiose is only present in very small amounts but both sugars are frequently mentioned in connection with the genetic difference between ale yeast (s. cerevisiae) and lager yeast (s. pastorianus).
http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index...=Carbohydrates
Damn, I was misled by a book I have read called Brew Chem 101. It mentions several times that "raffinose is not a major part of the brew wort". It also mentions that this particular difference (digesting raffinose) is responsible for the difference in taste between ale and lager yeasts. I'm sure you are correct, and that this book is misleading. I've repeated this lie at least a few times!
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:00 PM   #7
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I didn't think that the Cal Lager had worked because it was shipped to me at temperatures around 103 degrees for 3 days. The smack packs did not inflate, and there was such an exteame lag time that I had assumed that it was dead.

Wyeast states that the Cal Lager ferments between "58-68° F" http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststr...ail.cfm?ID=131

So i should be ok there.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:11 PM   #8
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Although your beer won't taste good fermented at elevated temps, yeast is quite happy at 100°F. I know that John Palmer recommends that exact temperature for rehydrating dry yeast.

I've already been called out on one bad piece of info in this thread; I hope this isn't strike 2 (although if I'm wrong, I want to know about it ).
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