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Old 08-09-2010, 03:50 PM   #11
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So with a good 3 or 4 gallons of puree slushie (plus a gallon of elderberry juice) should I dilute this with water and sugar? it's right at 5.5 gallons of slush now and it's pretty thick I could only imagine my SG reading right now would be ridiculous with all the solids in there.

Edit: Oh and I'd like to end up with a deep rich red. I also have some oak chips I used to age and color some brandy with that I bet would be great for secondary on this.

 
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:00 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimster View Post
So with a good 3 or 4 gallons of puree slushie (plus a gallon of elderberry juice) should I dilute this with water and sugar? it's right at 5.5 gallons of slush now and it's pretty thick I could only imagine my SG reading right now would be ridiculous with all the solids in there.

Edit: Oh and I'd like to end up with a deep rich red. I also have some oak chips I used to age and color some brandy with that I bet would be great for secondary on this.
To add water and sugar is a good idea- I doubt those grapes have enough sugar on their own. You'd need to add water and take an SG to know how much sugar to add.

I don't mean to disuade you from making what you want, but using concord grapes to make a dark red rich wine might not be easy. It's thin, acidic, and needs some sweetening usually. Oaking would be fine of course. If you've ever had Mogen David wine, that's a typical concord wine. It's good for what it is, but it won't ever taste like a merlot.
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YooperBrew View Post
To add water and sugar is a good idea- I doubt those grapes have enough sugar on their own. You'd need to add water and take an SG to know how much sugar to add.

I don't mean to disuade you from making what you want, but using concord grapes to make a dark red rich wine might not be easy. It's thin, acidic, and needs some sweetening usually. Oaking would be fine of course. If you've ever had Mogen David wine, that's a typical concord wine. It's good for what it is, but it won't ever taste like a merlot.
Hmm maybe these aren't concords after all? Because the liquid in my bucket is dark dark red almost purple it's REALLY dark red. And overall they're a pretty tasty grape. My mom said they're concord so I just went with that.

 
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimster View Post
Hmm maybe these aren't concords after all? Because the liquid in my bucket is dark dark red almost purple it's REALLY dark red. And overall they're a pretty tasty grape. My mom said they're concord so I just went with that.
Well, maybe! I've had some very dark wine musts from catawba grapes that turned out very light, though, so it's really hard to tell right now. The pulp will make it pretty dark.

I'd go ahead with what you're doing- the elderberries will provide much needed tannin so I think you're on the right course.
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:12 PM   #15
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Ok sending my wife to Lowe's to get some paint strainers, I'll strain and squeeze tonight, then see what I've got when I'm done with that.

So here's the basic plan:

squeeze and strain out the liquid
add water and sugar to a roughly 1.100 reading
?? save some (or all?) of the pulp in a strainer bag to let it sit in the fermenter for the primary ferment
should I sulphite the juice and let it sit for 24 hours, or heat it (pasteurize) then cool and pitch? Or just pitch?
primary till it's 1.010ish then rack to secondary (adding my white oak chips) for a month or two, then rack again, then bottle after say 4 months?

Seem like an ok plan?

I'm a wine newb I've done one kit (which made a superb wine even if it is barely 4 months old haha) and I've done several gallons of apfelwien with I love DEARLY.

 
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:12 PM   #16
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maybe these grapes are muscadines and not concords.

 
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rawlus View Post
maybe these grapes are muscadines and not concords.
Nah these are some sort of grapes, they're actually hybrids I think, cause my dad planted 2 types of grapes close together and some times you get some white grapes in some of the bunches that you would think are unripe but they're quite sweet and ripe tasting. Is it possible for 2 types to hybridize like this? I know planting cayenne peppers too near your bell peppers can result in some really... interesting bell peppers.

 
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:34 PM   #18
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okay.. so this is all going to be a bit experimental since we don't know exactly what we're working with...

it would be good if you could test acid and/or pH. some of these wild and non-vinefera strains are known for higher than typical acidity...

but outside of that, you can heat the water and sugar solution to dissolve and add that to get your 1.095-1.100 SG reading, i would add 1tsp of pectic enzyme to aid in breaking down the solids as well as in future clearing.. i would not heat the juice to pasteurize it. a simple dose of sulfite (k-meta) at 1/4tsp per 5gal rate should be sufficient. Use a wine yeast, EC-1118 is a strong fermenter, highly competitive, strong alcohol tolerance, wide temp range and low foaming. optimal ferment temp for this yeast is 60*-77* but it is capable of going into the low 80's.

you can oxygenate prior to pitching the yeast, but should refrain from O2 after that.
primary ferment down to between 1.000-1.010 and transfer to secondary with minimal headspace, leave gross lees behind. rack into secondary with minimal O2 exposure, ferment as low as you can go, usually below 1.000, sometimes as low as 0.993-0.995.
when you get two or three days in a row of same SG, rack again to clean carboy, add your oak and maintain minimal headspace, add wine or other alcohol (not juice) to increase volume if necessary to maintain minimal headspace. i would suggest tasting intervals at 1 week to assess oak character, leave in until desired character is reached, then either remove or rack again leaving oak behind. you cannot undo oak in a wine other than by blending with an unoaked wine so you don't want to overshoot your target.
age in carboy (with airlock) until clear and then bulk age or bottle, your choice.

 
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:36 PM   #19
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there are some good basic recipes on concord grapes and other fruits at http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

 
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:40 PM   #20
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Agree with rawlus!

You can ferment on the skins during primary, and remove it when going to secondary. You'd get more color and flavor that way. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it finished as low as .990. It'll be very tart, but fixable.
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