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Old 07-20-2010, 02:27 AM   #11
944play
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by permo View Post
thoughts on this concept/idea?
Your recipe looks a lot like many Stone IPA clone recipes (except they're usually only Mag/Cent)... coincidence?
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Old 07-20-2010, 03:57 AM   #12
permo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 944play View Post
Your recipe looks a lot like many Stone IPA clone recipes (except they're usually only Mag/Cent)... coincidence?
Nope, I literally just thought it up for strictly hypothetical discussion. I have no access to stone beers up here in ND!

 
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Old 07-20-2010, 04:16 AM   #13
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This sounds like the beginning of an interesting experiment.

Make a batch and split the wort. Add 3-4 ounces of hops at flameout to one batch, and in the other add the same amount of the same hops at 5 minute intervals starting with about 20 minutes to go in the boil. Use a bittering addition of something smooth like Magnum to keep the IBU's the same between beers.

Then you can have a beer at 1-week intervals after it's carbed and compare the flavors/track how they change over time.

In fact, as I've been writing this post, I'm starting to think about the kind of hops I would use in this sort of experiment. I might have to do it at some point. My curiosity is piqued. I'm sure the batches would taste different, but I'd love to taste the difference for myself.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:05 PM   #14
SpanishCastleAle
 
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I often/usually do what you're talking about permo. I don't even bother with any additions >18 minutes (other than bittering additions at 60 minutes) because they just seem to not leave much flavor, no aroma, and reduced utilization so it just seems like a waste.

It depends somewhat on how fast you chill your wort and also how you chill your wort. Living in Florida, my chilling is likely not as fast as some others (I use two ICs, a 50' in the kettle and a 25' as a pre-chiller). I imagine in ND you have some nice, cold water.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpanishCastleAle View Post
I often/usually do what you're talking about permo. I don't even bother with any additions >18 minutes (other than bittering additions at 60 minutes) because they just seem to not leave much flavor, no aroma, and reduced utilization so it just seems like a waste.
That's what I do too. I feel that any hop additions at 20-59 minutes are "wasted". I do have a few recipes that add hops at 30 minutes, but those are generally because I needed a bit more bitterness. I don't feel that 30 minute hops contribute to flavor or aroma at all, just bitterness.

I add my bittering hops at 60 minutes, and flavor hops at 15ish, and aroma hops at 5 and/or 0, depending on the style of beer I'm making. I make mostly IPAs, so I'll add the hops at 60, 15, 10, 5, 0.
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:40 PM   #16
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+1 to Yooper,

60, 15, 10, 5, FO, DH
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YooperBrew View Post
That's what I do too. I feel that any hop additions at 20-59 minutes are "wasted". I do have a few recipes that add hops at 30 minutes, but those are generally because I needed a bit more bitterness. I don't feel that 30 minute hops contribute to flavor or aroma at all, just bitterness.

I add my bittering hops at 60 minutes, and flavor hops at 15ish, and aroma hops at 5 and/or 0, depending on the style of beer I'm making. I make mostly IPAs, so I'll add the hops at 60, 15, 10, 5, 0.
I do not totally disagree but do not totally agree either. I feel that it really depends on the hops. I've noticed this with columbus and Vinnie of Russian River said to try only bittering a beer and use Chinook. He said try this and just notice the hop flavor and aroma in the finish. just my 2 cents but I thought i would bring it up. Ray Daniels also notes this in his designing great beers book. He notes that for some reason the higher the cohumulone content the more the bittering hop comes through in the finish.

 
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Old 07-21-2010, 03:55 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
I do not totally disagree but do not totally agree either. I feel that it really depends on the hops. I've noticed this with columbus and Vinnie of Russian River said to try only bittering a beer and use Chinook. He said try this and just notice the hop flavor and aroma in the finish. just my 2 cents but I thought i would bring it up. Ray Daniels also notes this in his designing great beers book. He notes that for some reason the higher the cohumulone content the more the bittering hop comes through in the finish.
That's interesting. I've heard quite often that cohumulone content is a rough measure of the "harshness" of a bittering hop.

If higher cohumulone hops seem to have more flavor/aroma presence when used as bittering additions I have to wonder if some of this "harshness" is the perceived clash between the lingering flavors of a bittering hop and the later additions used for flavor/aroma.
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:15 AM   #19
permo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ouroboros View Post
That's interesting. I've heard quite often that cohumulone content is a rough measure of the "harshness" of a bittering hop.

If higher cohumulone hops seem to have more flavor/aroma presence when used as bittering additions I have to wonder if some of this "harshness" is the perceived clash between the lingering flavors of a bittering hop and the later additions used for flavor/aroma.
Makes some sense to me, anybody that has brewed an arrogant bastard clone, can vouge for the chinook coming through via early additions.

I think it is fairly obvious that there is still a lot to learn about hops in beer.....

 
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Old 02-19-2012, 01:10 PM   #20
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So, in developing a recipe, except for the bittering effect as seen in whatever brew software, how do you choose the hops at the different levels within the 15 minute window? Sounds like most agree that 15 mins is where you'll want the hops to contribute flavor to the beer without so much bitterness. For example, I like Chinook and Cascade, so I was planning something like this. I had placed my "flavor" hops in the 15 minute window, but chose based on their impact of the bitterness of the beer.

1.00 oz Chinook [10.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 4 32.2 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 5 5.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Chinook [10.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 10.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.90 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 8.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs

 
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