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Old 07-19-2010, 06:19 PM   #1
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[First I want to take sanitation out of the equation and let us assume that this is all done in a sanitary environment.]

We all know that leaving hops in HOT wort too long affects their contribution to the final product. But is cooling TOO fast affecting the mouth feel of the final product?

A question for those who use a Reverse Flow Chiller:
Do you see more trub in the primary after fermentation than when you used cold water through a submerged coil of copper tubing for chilling?

If so then is cooling down done too fast affecting mouth feel by converting proteins into weird structures which settle out of the finished product? If so then a regulated cooling may be helpful with that.

Having said all that, we need to know at what temp the cold break happens and at what temp hop profile changes continue to happen.

If the cold break temp is below the temp that hop profile changes happen, I have an idea.

The plan:
Boil wort as normal.
Rapidly cool wort to below whatever the temp at which hop profile changes happen.
Slowly cool wort from there down to pitching temp to prevent any harmful cold break.

If this makes sense then a shorter Reverse Flow Chiller calculated to reduce temp to just below hop utilization temp combined with a Submerged Chiller to then slowly lower the wort temp to final pitching temp would be ideal.

Any thoughts?
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Old 07-19-2010, 06:30 PM   #2
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Since I've only ever used a CFC, I'm not sure how to compare. And I'm not sure if there is such a thing as a harmful cold break. I can see where you get the idea that leaving those proteins in the finished beer might modify mouthfeel, but I'm not sure how great the effect really is.

I think that the majority of the proteins settle out during the fermentation stages, but I suppose there is potential for very small particles to remain (giving chill haze).

 
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Old 07-19-2010, 06:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beer_Guy View Post
We all know that leaving hops in HOT wort too long affects their contribution to the final product. But is cooling TOO fast affecting the mouth feel of the final product?

We all know this? I've never heard this. It kind of goes against the whole needing boiling temps to isomerize the alpha acids idea, that we all do know. I really don't know what you are getting at.
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Old 07-19-2010, 06:43 PM   #4
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i always thought you wanted a good cold break to help precipitate out any proteins and give you a clearer beer...

 
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Old 07-19-2010, 06:45 PM   #5
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Revvy, I think that he's talking about how you need to adjust your hop schedule if you plan on doing no-chill....

 
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Old 07-19-2010, 06:52 PM   #6
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Revvy, come on....

Most recipes say flavor hops boil time = 10 Minutes or so

According to a chart here somewhere, a flavor hop boil gets only 20% in 10 minutes. It does not hit peak flavors till 20 minutes into boil.
Why not boil flavor hops for 20 minutes and use 80% less hops?
I thought we boil for 10 and more flavor comes out during the early cooling down time.

Am I wrong?
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Old 07-19-2010, 06:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_IPA View Post
Revvy, I think that he's talking about how you need to adjust your hop schedule if you plan on doing no-chill....
OK REVVY, so why would you need to do this in a no-chill if hop usage is ONLY done during a hard boil?
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Old 07-19-2010, 07:23 PM   #8
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Funny most beer recipes I see call for a 60 minute boil for bitterness, then some combination of shorter term additions for aroma and flavor. And if you are first wort hopping you could potentially have hops in your kettle for 2 hours, if you are doing a 90 minute boil for pilsner malts/dms, and chilling.

You could be doing a huge beer and boiling for 5 hours or more with hops in there, for a barelywine.

And if you dump your kettle into your primary, with trub, break, and all you've got hops in there for up to a month if you long primary.

I still am missing something here..........or more than likely you are......

If you have a reference for your original statement that "everyone knows," post it, maybe we can clear this up. You might be mis-interpreting something.
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:10 PM   #9
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I still think the OP is referring to the fact that an identical hop schedule on two different beers (one chilled rapidly, one not) will produce different hop utilization.

from a different thread....

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/no-c...4/#post1403863

Quote:
Originally Posted by bakins View Post
For future reference I think this chart tells most of what I needed to knwo:




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Old 07-19-2010, 08:49 PM   #10
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That chart has at least one issue--FWH imparts about 10% more IBUs than a 60 minute addition, per the numbers Denny Conn ran and had tested in the lab. It's not going to replace a 10-15 minute addition well.
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