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Old 07-13-2010, 08:19 PM   #1
BA_from_GA
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Gonna do a perle single-hopped RIS next week... had this recipe roughly figured out for a few months, but want to offer it up for criticisms. the only other AG stout i've done came out very astringent and thin-boddied. ( due to too high % of roasted grains, and my mash temp dropping to the mid 140's)


here's what i've got

77% 2-row pale malt 16 lbs
5% black barley 1 lb
4% chocolate malt 12 oz
3% special b malt 10 oz
2% black pattent 6 oz
2% 120L 8 oz.
7% molasses (1/2 black strap, 1/2 light) somewhere around the 1-1.5 lb range.

again, all GR perle hops ( 8.1%aa)
1.5 oz @ 90 min
1.5 oz @ 30 min
1 oz @ 15 min

1 tsp gypsum in the mash (not sure about the quantity of this, but read it's good to use w/ lots of dark grains to keep the ph up)
1 whirl floc tab @ 15 min


ok, have at it...
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:29 PM   #2
permo
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You recipe is money, tons of dark cystal (special B and C120) work great in beers like this.......

The only thing I would do, but that's just me is ditch the 120, and go with all special B......it's a little darker, fruitery and I think will give the stout that added depth....maybe a touch of victory or aromatic as well....8 oz or so.....

I would increase my IBU as well on a beer this big, maybe add another 1.5 oz at 60 and another 1 oz at 5...but that's just me. My RIS goes over 100 IBU

 
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:31 PM   #3
Walker
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I'd be careful with the black patent. black patent is used in very small quantities to add color (a couple of oz in a 5 gallon batch). If you add too much, it adds more color, but it also adds a crappy acidic and ashen taste to the beer.

In short.... you never really want to actually TASTE black patent in a beer.... just SEE it.
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:35 PM   #4
permo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walker View Post
I'd be careful with the black patent. black patent is used in very small quantities to add color (a couple of oz in a 5 gallon batch). If you add too much, it adds more color, but it also adds a crappy acidic and ashen taste to the beer.

In short.... you never really want to actually TASTE black patent in a beer.... just SEE it.
Whoa! My bad....I thought it roasted barley, it's black barley!!

Heck I would sub roasted barley for the black barley, then you're in business! Here is the grainbill for my RIS, tastes great after 3 months in secondary. For what it's worth, I mashed at 156, pacman brought her from 1.095, down to 1.018. Perfect. I hopped it with 100 IBU of chinook, cascade and willamete with tons of late additions.

---- Briess 2 Row Caramel 120 0.375 lb
---- Crisp Pale Chocolate Malt 0.5 lb
---- Briess 2-Row Brewer's Malt 17 lb
---- Simpsons Dark Crystal (C150) 0.375 lb
---- Crisp Chocolate Malt 0.375 lb
---- Caramel Munich 0.375 lb
---- Special B 1 lb
---- Briess Roasted Barley 1.25 lb


 
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:35 PM   #5
SumnerH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walker View Post
I'd be careful with the black patent. black patent is used in very small quantities to add color (a couple of oz in a 5 gallon batch). If you add too much, it adds more color, but it also adds a crappy acidic and ashen taste to the beer.

In short.... you never really want to actually TASTE black patent in a beer.... just SEE it.
Yeah. You could consider Carafa Special II or III (or Sinamar extract) to get more color without the black patent taste.
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:40 PM   #6
Walker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by permo View Post
Whoa! My bad....I thought it roasted barley, it's black barley!!

Heck I would sub roasted barley for the black barley, then you in business!
I wasn't talking about the black barley. I was talking about the specific mention of black patent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BA_from_GA View Post
77% 2-row pale malt 16 lbs
5% black barley 1 lb
4% chocolate malt 12 oz
3% special b malt 10 oz
2% black pattent 6 oz
2% 120L 8 oz.
7% molasses (1/2 black strap, 1/2 light) somewhere around the 1-1.5 lb range.
Actually... I don't even know what black barley is. Going to need to look at one up.
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:47 PM   #7
BA_from_GA
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yeah black barley is what i have.... i couldn't tell you what the difference is... i got it from BMW here
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:52 PM   #8
Walker
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I looked it up. Sounds like it is roasted barley, just roasted a little more than usual.

I think the pound of that is *probably* ok. I'd still be concerned about the black patent.

This thing is already going to be as black as sin, so I don't think the SRMs added by the patent will make any difference, but the flavor you might get could be something you don't like.
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:53 PM   #9
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Gypsum will lower pH. You need chalk (probably, depending on your water), but I would probably leave the gypsum in there too for the sulfate.
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:37 PM   #10
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I'm going to go against the grain and state that I do enjoy a fair amount of black patent in a stout. Sure, yes, it depends upon what kind of flavor you're going for, but if you know what to expect using a large amount of it, don't hold back. I used 8oz in a 3 gallon batch once before (along with 6oz of roasted barley, if memory serves) and loved the results.

To my tastes, it seems either a very small (<2oz) amount of black patent can be good, for color and a little hint of flavor, as can a large amount, say >8oz, where it becomes a major player in the flavor profile of the beer, as a pleasant roasty, ashy, slightly bitter one. Anything in the middle seems too weak to set up a good flavor structure but strong enough to drown out other elements, and isn't so good. That's my take, anyway.

 
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