Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > Long Lag Time Creates DMS?
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-12-2010, 01:53 AM   #1
KMOX
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 41
Default Long Lag Time Creates DMS?

I've read something to this effect in a couple different sources, but I want to confirm that one of the hazards of a long lag time is a serious DMS problem.

To point: I had a chocolate rye brown ale into which I re-pitched some 1056 that had been sitting in a quart jar under beer for about a month. No starter.

(I had not used a starter because my original starter just didn't smell right, so I went with the emergency plan).

I had also let the wort cool from about 70 to about 60 overnight in my fermenter fridge before pitching. And, because I was in a hurry the next morning before work, I didn't aerate.

Soooo...yeah...there are all my sins.

Needless to say, I had about three days before I had any visible signs of fermentation, and the fermentation was fairly wimpy, producing little krausen.

The finished beer has that wonderful overwhelming rotten cabbage/corn flavor (in addition to overpowering tannins from too much chocolate rye and roasted barley in the recipe).

Does this experience jive with others' experience? Will cold storage mitigate the problem over time? Have I learned my lesson and will always keep a package of Nottingham on hand?


KMOX is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 05:25 AM   #2
homebrewer_99
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
homebrewer_99's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Atkinson (near the Quad Cities), IL
Posts: 17,949
Liked 116 Times on 91 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default


Dimethyl Sulfide

Description: Tastes and smells of cooked vegetables/corn/cabbage or shellfish/seafood. Is acceptable in light lagers to a degree.

Cause: Bacterial infection can cause DMS, as well as covering up your brewpot during the boil. DMS is removed from the wort during the boil, so covering it up is obviously going to cause the DMS-laced condensation to fall back into your brewpot.

Remedy: Keep good sanitation procedures, and make sure to keep a rolling, uncovered boil when brewing. Do not cover your brewpot during the boil!


__________________
HB Bill

homebrewer_99 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 05:37 AM   #3
KMOX
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 41
Default

Well, a long lag time would allow for a bacterial infection, I suppose.

I've just read in a couple of places that DMS can result from long lag times. I'm wondering if the other poor fermentation practices (on my part - I can't blame the yeast) contributed.
__________________
I don't drink no more. And I don't drink no less.
KMOX is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 05:50 AM   #4
homebrewer_99
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
homebrewer_99's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Atkinson (near the Quad Cities), IL
Posts: 17,949
Liked 116 Times on 91 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Well, I wouldn't agree with the long lag time being the cause.

If it were then it would happen to a lot of people who don't make starters.
__________________
HB Bill
homebrewer_99 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 06:10 AM   #5
KMOX
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 41
Default

I'm thinking of John Palmer's note in How to Brew that diacetyl can result from long lag times...

...in this case, I'm starting to think that the DMS flavor is a bacterial infection that's hiding behind the astringent dark malts. I'm thinking the bacteria were able to get a foothold because the yeast got such a slow start.
__________________
I don't drink no more. And I don't drink no less.
KMOX is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 09:44 AM   #6
Brewham
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 262
Liked 6 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I've also read it can be caused by covering up your brewpot and not letting the DMS boil off. Did you?
Brewham is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 04:42 PM   #7
KMOX
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 41
Default

No, nor did the recipe have any pilsner malt.

I just noticed last night that in The Homebrewer's Companion, Papazian also attributes the cooked vegetable flavor to long lag times.
__________________
I don't drink no more. And I don't drink no less.
KMOX is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 04:47 PM   #8
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,817
Liked 2889 Times on 1702 Posts
Likes Given: 3520

Default

I have never seen any mention of DMS occuring due to long lag times, nor do I recall Palmer saying that. I've quoted info on dms for brewers and NEVER noticed anything about lag, just covering and bacterial. I could have missed something, but I don't think so. I've never come upon any issues with long lag times in yeasts. Long lagtimes are a natural occurance with some yeasts. Hence the sticky we have about yeast taking up to 72 hours to start.
__________________
Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew
Revvy is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 04:57 PM   #9
Schlenkerla
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Schlenkerla's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Decatur, Illinois
Posts: 6,486
Liked 120 Times on 96 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

This is what I know about lag time and DMS.

It has to do with boiling your wort and chilling your wort. At 210F its boiling out of solution, DMS seems to form in quantity between 140F and 210F. The trick is to crash chill as fast as possible to minimize DMS. I read somewhere that once you are below 140F you are OK. So if you are below 140F then the lag issue from 140F to 76F is mainly a concern about contamination. Pitch good and you are OK if its not too long of a time.

Another tidbit about DMS, is with pilsner malt. It usually has a higher potential to form DMS, so longer boils are better for pilsners, 90-120 minutes, more so important since they may be light in taste.
__________________
Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. - Dale Carnegie

BS Nano-Brewery

|Myeast 50327|Easy Hop Oast|Smoked Homebrew|

Schlenkerla is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 05:09 PM   #10
mithion
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 395
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default

DMS can also occur while you're cooling your beer, even if your wort isn't covered. DMS requires heat to be produced (besides bacterial infection of course) and there is a range of temperatures where it's production is optimal. Don't quote me on the numbers, but I think it's in the vicinity 80C and higher. If you don't cool your wort fast enough, and your wort hangs around 80C for longer than it should, tons of DMS will be produced and will stay in your beer since you're no longer boiling to dissipate it. Do you remember if you took a long time to cool your beer?


__________________
Primary:
Secondary: Chimay Tripel #1
Conditioning: The Day After Christmas Eve Old Ale, Phil's Classic English #2
Drinking: Irish Rebellion
Next Beer: Earthly Brown
mithion is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How long is too long to reuse yeast cake? mosquitocontrol Fermentation & Yeast 1 04-30-2010 05:50 PM
How long is too long? (I know it's vague, sorry) Joemama474 Fermentation & Yeast 5 04-28-2010 02:30 AM
How long is too long for Belgian Strong Ale (1.072) in Primary? redalert Fermentation & Yeast 19 03-20-2010 02:57 AM
Long time in primary...yeast washing still an option? Jenks829 Fermentation & Yeast 1 02-16-2010 11:01 PM
Wow... Long... long .... long fermentation... FxdGrMind Fermentation & Yeast 15 11-23-2009 08:18 PM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS