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Old 02-26-2011, 02:51 AM   #61
ricenbeans
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If you're not so concerned about it being gluten free, just add some 6 row malt. It is most commonly used to convert starchy adjuncts that don't have enzymatic potential like rice or corn. I've never used 6 row, personally, but I would think as little as one or two pounds in your mash would do the trick.

As far as malting quinoa goes, I think that you are better off not malting it at all, just cooking it before the mash. The malting process, while providing some changes in flavor, as well as breaking down some undesirables (in malt at least) like DMS and beta glucans, can actually take away some of your potential sugars. The grain does break down some starch into sugar, but that tends to be immediately consumed in the sprouting process. Now for the cooking of it:
To be able to successfully mash adjuncts like quinoa, rice, oats, corn, or whatever starch you choose, the grains need to be gelatinized. Malted barley, fortunately, gelatinizes at fairly low temps, I cant remember off the top of my head, but it is lower than your mash temperature. Other grains must be cooked before mashing. Take rice for example: get a bag of rice and chew some grains. It's tough for you to chew through them, and the amylase enzymes have that same trouble.

 
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:12 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dorklord View Post
Toasting WILL destroy enzymes from the malting process. I can't remember what the cutoff is, but that's generally a difference between the base malts and the specialty malts. As you go darker, the enzyme content goes down, and at some point, a dark malt simply has no enzymes left.

I think one of the reasons that Sorghum is commonly used as a base for beers (well, as commonly as it is, anyway) is that it has the enzymes to convert itself and perhaps a little left over.

As for your idea, that's what is commonly done for regular barley based beers. I've often heard 'toss in a little two-row to convert that crystal malt' or something along those lines.
Just wanted to confirm that dorklord speaks the truth.

The one change I would make is to say that the lower of temperature that you roast at, the more enzymes will stick around. As in, the longer you roast something to achieve a color, the more enzymes you will have.

 
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Old 03-07-2011, 04:59 PM   #63
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Regarding the gelatinization requirement, it appears quinoa gelatinizes at 57 - 64C according to here (PDF warning): http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/afu9961/$FILE/quinoa_final_report_june_05.pdf . That's 134.6 - 147.2 in Fahrenheit. So maybe you could do an hour rest at 140 before adding boiling water to step up to the amylase conversion range at 149-160?

 
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Old 04-22-2011, 05:35 AM   #64
tonyolympia
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My local food co-op sells black quinoa. I wonder if some if that, cooked to the gelatinous point but not toasted, would give color and some flavor complexity to the brew?

 
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:33 AM   #65
spagyric
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In the gluten free malting sticky there's a link to some PDFs that talk about one brewer's GF malting and mashing process. I read there, and other places that millet is the best GF grain for converting and can convert 40% adjuncts when used as the base malt (sorghum is second best). Of course, I think that's assuming it's malted just right.

The gelatinization temperature thing is one of the biggest challenges to successfully mashing with GF grains, as the gelatinization temps are higher than mashing temps. That's probably why people are having such a difficult time getting conversion, even with added enzymes. The guy I mentioned above does his mash by mashing at normal temps and then removing the liquid to preserve the enzymes. He then raises the mash to gelatinization temperatures and adds the liquid with the enzymes back in to convert the mash. It sounds like a PITA, but I think it's probably the only way to get malted GF grains to convert on their own (or with added enzymes for that matter).

I'm looking into trying to malt some millet and buckwheat to make beers for my wife and am planning to using this mashing process. I'll probably be doing a lot of experimentation once I get enough malt made. I'll definitely post about it when I get the project underway.

 
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Old 11-23-2011, 05:56 AM   #66
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I don't know if it's been mentioned here.. but, there is a Quinoa Bitter recipe in "The Homebrewer's Garden" by Fisher and Fisher.
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:44 PM   #67
DougmanXL
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I wouldn't use Quinoa as a flavoring agent - I used it twice, and both beers had an strange off-flavour, that I didn't get when making the same recipe minus the roasted quinoa. If you want to know what I mean, try eating boiled quinoa cold, it tastes bad. I would use millet or buckwheat instead.

Edit: Malted quinoa is probably okay, just using unmalted, roasted quinoa doesnt taste so good... maybe if you just roast it lightly.
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Old 11-23-2011, 05:27 PM   #68
mloster
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I just brewed an oatmeal stout with some quinoa in it and I'll let you guys know how it comes out. Hopefully, it doesn't have any strange off flavors like you mentioned. I did include malted millet in this beer and didn't get much of extraction. I did a single decoction and ended up getting about 14 ppg from both the quinoa and millet. Given, I could refine the mashing/ decoction a bit, I could boost that by a few points. Still though, malted GF grains in general don't seem to contribute hugely to a reasonable OG. I have malted and lightly roasted some quinoa before and it tasted delicious. I think roasting brings out a nuttiness to the grain.

 
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:12 PM   #69
HopSong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougmanXL View Post
.. try eating boiled quinoa cold, it tastes bad. I would use millet or buckwheat instead.
I don't know.. I like it hot or cold. Don't eat it plain.. rather as a base with something on top.. meat sauce or ??

I can't picture using it in beer tho... How about Amaranth seeds? Same process.. seeds from same place in Peru??
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Old 11-29-2011, 05:26 PM   #70
kopher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HbgBill View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougmanXL
I don't know.. I like it hot or cold.
Don't eat it plain.. rather as a base with something on top.. meat sauce or ??
Ya, and ever eaten plain, cold barley? Probably not so good either


Quote:
I don't know if it's been mentioned here.. but, there is a Quinoa Bitter recipe in "The Homebrewer's Garden" by Fisher and Fisher.
That's awesome! Do you know if it's an all-quinoa brew or is it mostly barley? Can't find the recipe online anywhere.

 
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