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Old 02-23-2011, 08:56 PM   #51
kopher
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Originally Posted by DKershner View Post
As to answer your question, Dirtbag has found a mix of beta and alpha enzymes in the form of his...blanking on the name but it is earlier in this thread. I have not been able to source it anywhere for sale yet online.

EDIT: The name is Crosby & Baker.
This one looks like it (i.e., Crosby & Baker amylase for sale online): http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/a...z/4,12199.html

Though still not quite convinced it's different than the amylase at austin homebrew, which is what I used.


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Old 02-23-2011, 09:36 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by kopher View Post
This one looks like it (i.e., Crosby & Baker amylase for sale online): http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/a...z/4,12199.html

Though still not quite convinced it's different than the amylase at austin homebrew, which is what I used.
Has anyone seen this??? http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/c...z/4,12267.html

That sounds promising.


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Old 02-24-2011, 06:04 PM   #53
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Lol, I always thought GF sour beer was a good idea, but I didn't have anyone to drink it. Who cares about much conversion when you are dealing with Lacto!


I made a gallon of quinoa/amaranth ale a couple years ago. It was my first GF experiment with self-malted grains and I didn't have a mill. I ended up putting 4lbs through a coffee grinder and it was all flour. After the mash, I strained out the larger chucks with a paint strainer, but a lot of flour ended up in kettle and then the fermentor, which lead to multiple racking attempts to remove, which lead to an infection. It tasted like vomit. I decided to bottle it and bring it out on unsuspecting victims. After I ran out of victims, the remaining bottles were put into storage. I decided to open one recently and it isn't bad. I actually like it.



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Originally Posted by DKershner View Post
Has anyone seen this??? http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/c...z/4,12267.html

That sounds promising.
I have some of that stuff. I've tried to convert some rice flour with it, but after 4 hours, I didn't see any results.
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:12 PM   #54
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in regards to the iodine test, my thought, i did do an iodine test on this, it did fail as the iodine stayed mostly black, but wont this be the case unless 100% conversion is achieved? with efficiency we'll never get 100% conversion, most people are glad to get 70, if ive been reading right.. i think i may have a pic of my OG, but im pretty sure i dont have one of FG. ill have to do some hunting around. update to follow.


after digging around the hard drive, i havent a clue where those pictures have gone.....

Reason: update followed
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:32 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by DirtbagHomebrew View Post
in regards to the iodine test, my thought, i did do an iodine test on this, it did fail as the iodine stayed mostly black, but wont this be the case unless 100% conversion is achieved? with efficiency we'll never get 100% conversion, most people are glad to get 70, if ive been reading right.. i think i may have a pic of my OG, but im pretty sure i dont have one of FG. ill have to do some hunting around. update to follow.


after digging around the hard drive, i havent a clue where those pictures have gone.....
I assumed that efficiency corresponded to how much you were able to extract from the grains. So even if you converted everything that you extracted, you left some stuff (starch or sugars) in the grains.

Not sure about this, but regardless I know the iodine test is used, and when I use it when making a regular beer the iodine-wort solution does not turn black. It is sometimes dark-ish but not like the complete blackness I see during a quinoa mash. Though I see your point that maybe there's been some conversion and that's "good enough" for a reasonable fermentation.

Still have no idea why I can't get quinoa to convert even close to as well as barley.
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:37 PM   #56
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Same question answered here: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/iodi...-batches-6877/

By the way, efficiency is estimated using gravity readings, right? And starches do add to gravity...I think that implies efficiency must mean extraction and says nothing about conversion.
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:45 PM   #57
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..now im really kicking my self in the arse because i didnt take/cant find OG or FG readings

heres a possibility. when were toasting our grain, is there a chance that were killing any of the enzymes that we may have 'captured' in the malting process. what about adding some pale malt (untoasted malt) to the mash to possibly add some of the natural enzymes to the mash that may have been removed, along with putting in the sourced enzyme mix.

i dont know the enzyme content of quinoa, i dont want to put a fudged number out their either, if i remember previous readings, barley malt has FAR more enzymes than necessary for conversion during the mashing process. and i think (THINK but am not sure) most of the GF grains out there have little natural enzymes.

can some one find this out?
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Old 02-25-2011, 11:32 PM   #58
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I followed a very similar process of malting and mashing with 100% quinoa. I used rice hulls and still had a huge problem with stuck mash. I ended up just pouring though grain bag.

Any info on how you went about the mash/sparge would be helpful.
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:58 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtbagHB View Post
..now im really kicking my self in the arse because i didnt take/cant find OG or FG readings

heres a possibility. when were toasting our grain, is there a chance that were killing any of the enzymes that we may have 'captured' in the malting process. what about adding some pale malt (untoasted malt) to the mash to possibly add some of the natural enzymes to the mash that may have been removed, along with putting in the sourced enzyme mix.

i dont know the enzyme content of quinoa, i dont want to put a fudged number out their either, if i remember previous readings, barley malt has FAR more enzymes than necessary for conversion during the mashing process. and i think (THINK but am not sure) most of the GF grains out there have little natural enzymes.

can some one find this out?
Toasting WILL destroy enzymes from the malting process. I can't remember what the cutoff is, but that's generally a difference between the base malts and the specialty malts. As you go darker, the enzyme content goes down, and at some point, a dark malt simply has no enzymes left.

I think one of the reasons that Sorghum is commonly used as a base for beers (well, as commonly as it is, anyway) is that it has the enzymes to convert itself and perhaps a little left over.

As for your idea, that's what is commonly done for regular barley based beers. I've often heard 'toss in a little two-row to convert that crystal malt' or something along those lines.
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Old 02-26-2011, 01:22 AM   #60
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One of the Brewing Science abstracts on this page has some information about beta-amylase activity with different germination times and temperatures (each batch was kilned at 165 F)...
http://www.mbaa.com/TechQuarterly/pdfs/TQ-45-1-0073.pdf

It concludes that optimal malting occurred with a 5 day germination time, but that was the shortest germination time they tried, so maybe better malting (enzyme activity) would occur with even shorter germination times.


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