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Old 06-29-2010, 06:46 PM   #11
Zamial
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdboy View Post
I think it would be easier to use a chest freezer and/or glycol chiller than a dry ice/acetone explosive device.
the issue is being able to freeze out the water as I stated above in the OP. A chest freezer can be bought that will hit -1f not -75f a chest freezer probably could not hold that temp as they are designed to store food which does not need to go below -1f. I will look into the glycol chiller...

As for the "explosive device" no sorry, I am not going out in a self made ball of fire. I will be doing this, if it is indeed legal, in the cold of winter, outside, away from any open flame in a light breeze...

My main concern here is the legality. I in no way want to break the forum rules and x2 that on any local, state, fed laws. This would be fun to try but I do not need fines/jail or to get banned here...
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Old 06-29-2010, 07:13 PM   #12
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I realize that the dry ice/acetone will get down extremely cold, but I was under the impression that a good chest freezer can get pretty darn cold, like at least 20F below zero.

I don't think there's any legality issues on a federal level, but you might check with the state.


 
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Old 06-29-2010, 07:33 PM   #13
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Chest freezers run at around -20F. The point the OP is missing is that you don't want to freeze the beer, you want to freeze the water fraction of the beer, partially. You can do this at temperatures higher than the freezing point of the beer and this is desirable as you will get small crystals which are mostly frozen water rather than trapping alcohol and flavor active compounds in large ice crystals which is what will happen if you freeze quickly.

At the end of the day, hundreds of homebrewers have made very strong eis beers with a chest freezer. The proof is in the pudding.

 
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:15 PM   #14
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I think if you chill beer in dry ice/acetone the beer will cool too quickly and trap some of the alcohol. Beers like Brewdog's Sink the Bismarck are made in ice cream facilities, which are nearer chest freezer than "cardice" temperatures.

 
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:27 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamial View Post
The issue is that at 20% it has to get really cold to even freeze a little (-15 f ). I read that in order to get it to 30% ABV it would need to -30 f.
I think you're mistaken. A 20% ethanol solution will freeze at 15°F, and a 30% sol'n at 5°F. Sugars in the beer will drop those, but not more than a degree or so.

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Old 07-24-2010, 02:33 AM   #16

As stated above - you don't need...or even want...to freeze the EtOH in the beer...just the water. As to what temp you need to freeze the water given a particular %ABV, the chart on this website will help
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Old 07-24-2010, 02:56 AM   #17
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I agree that you probably don't need to get it as cold as you think...you're really just trying to remove the water, and yes, you will get some freezing point depression, but I think you can reach that without dry ice and conductive liquids like acetone!

FWIW, I did a freeze concentration with a couple of overcarbed bottles of cranberry braggot (estimated starting ABV 11% or so), and easily got a 3 fold concentration using a regular old kitchen freezer. I estimated the final product to be about 34%...come to think of it, I still haven't tried it...perhaps w/ all the ice threads going on recently I should get inspired to give it a sample...

 
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Old 07-24-2010, 03:02 AM   #18
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Thanks. I have actually done a freeze concentration with the family apfelwein. I did accomplish this in my freezer. Yes, I was able to get into the 60 proof range and it was indeed quite different.

Incase anyone else was following this, I have decided that the "idea" I originally proposed would be a smarter "second step" than as a starting point. Based not only by the wisdom of those who have given good suggestions but by my own observations as well.

I do fully intend on attempting this "super-freeze concentration" in the future but do not currently possess the "first freezings" to attempt a "second freezing". I will probably not be in a position to even attempt this for a good while. When I do, I will report back to this thread.

As a final reminder, I believe that I can safely attempt this. I in NO way am suggesting that anyone attempt this as these are "extreme" temps; this can permanently harm you and may produce a potentially extremely flammable gas. I intend on doing this outside, in the middle of a midwest winter with temps at or near 0 F. this will allow the "potentially flammable gas" to remain "inert" and it should not be flammable at those temps, as I understand it.


 
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Old 08-04-2010, 05:28 PM   #19
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Acetone has a high vapor pressure and a low flash point. 0- F is not going to change that much. Dry ice in acetone solution will achieve -72F, which is below vapor pressure and flash point, so flammability is not a major concern. The dry ice will still sublimate.

Solid CO2 is more of a respiratory and pressure hazard, so only use in a well ventilated area, do not inhale CO2 gas, and do not contain CO2.

 
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