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Old 05-15-2010, 01:13 PM   #1
Brocster
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Mar 2009
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Just had my first bottle of this last night and was blown away. I can't seem to find a direct recipe match anywhere and was hoping someone may have an idea on a recipe formulation.

I would rate this as the best Farmhouse Ale/Saison that I have tried.



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Old 05-15-2010, 03:45 PM   #2

I don't have a recipe, but they've got quite a lot of info on their site (I've used it before in helping to brew) http://www.gooseisland.com/pages/sofie/28.php

Have you tried Goose Island's Matilda? Its a wonderful Belgian style ale, just outstanding!



 
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Old 05-15-2010, 05:23 PM   #3
SumnerH
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Matilda's very good. Sofie is awesome, though, just a fantastic beer.

There's a lot of info on that page to get you in the ballpark:
Malt: Pilsner, wheat
I'd go Belgian pilsner and wheat malt, probably about 10% wheat to start with
ABV: 6.5%, very dry
Yeast: wild (It tastes Brett brux-y to me.)

I'd probably go with French Saison yeast and a Brett B. culture added after a couple of days of primary. Mash higher than a typical saison, more in the normal 153ish range, to leave a little for the brett to work with. 9 lbs of pilsen and 1 lb of wheat malt gets you in the ABV ballpark if final attenuation (after brett's done its work) is good.

Hops: Amarillo, 25 IBUs
I'd probably go 1oz at 60 minutes (plus or minus--hit the IBUs with the AA% of your hops) with no late additions. Not much hop aroma that I remember here.

Oaking: Definitely needs an oaking regimen. Medium toast oak cubes. They're previously used, so I'd boil in water for 30 minutes to get rid of some of the harsher character. If you really want to simulate the wine barrel thing, you could soak them in a dry white wine for a few weeks ahead of time. It's not a super oaky character, so I'd taste after 3 weeks or so and see if there's enough or keep going.

Citrus: It's not an overpowering citrus, so I'd be tempted to do this at the start of aging rather than the end. Maybe zest an orange in at the time you add the oak?

With the brett in there you're going to want to age it for a good long while before bottling.
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On deck: Little Bo Pils, Bretta Off Dead (Brett pale)
Secondary: Oude Bruin, Red Sky at Morning (Sour brown ale)
On tap: Saison Duphunk (sour), Amarillo Slim (IPA), Earl White (ginger/bergamot wit)
Bottled: Number 8 (Belgian Strong Dark Ale), Eternale (Barleywine), Ancho Villa (Ancho/pasilla/chocolate/cinnamon RIS), Oak smoked porter (1/2 maple bourbon oaked, 1/2 apple brandy oaked)


 
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Old 05-15-2010, 06:54 PM   #4
SumnerH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SumnerH View Post
Matilda's very good. Sofie is awesome, though, just a fantastic beer.

There's a lot of info on that page to get you in the ballpark:
Malt: Pilsner, wheat
I'd go Belgian pilsner and wheat malt, probably about 10% wheat to start with
ABV: 6.5%, very dry
Yeast: wild (It tastes Brett brux-y to me.)

I'd probably go with French Saison yeast and a Brett B. culture added after a couple of days of primary. Mash higher than a typical saison, more in the normal 153ish range, to leave a little for the brett to work with. 9 lbs of pilsen and 1 lb of wheat malt gets you in the ABV ballpark if final attenuation (after brett's done its work) is good.

Hops: Amarillo, 25 IBUs
I'd probably go 1oz at 60 minutes (plus or minus--hit the IBUs with the AA% of your hops) with no late additions. Not much hop aroma that I remember here.

Oaking: Definitely needs an oaking regimen. Medium toast oak cubes. They're previously used, so I'd boil in water for 30 minutes to get rid of some of the harsher character. If you really want to simulate the wine barrel thing, you could soak them in a dry white wine for a few weeks ahead of time. It's not a super oaky character, so I'd taste after 3 weeks or so and see if there's enough or keep going.

Citrus: It's not an overpowering citrus, so I'd be tempted to do this at the start of aging rather than the end. Maybe zest an orange in at the time you add the oak?

With the brett in there you're going to want to age it for a good long while before bottling.
Just to pull that stream of consciousness together, first guess:

Mash 9 lbs of Belgian pilsner and 1 lb of wheat malt @153F until full conversion
Add 1 oz of Amarillo @60 mins

Ferment with Wyeast 3711 French Saison (proper starter); after 48 hours, pitch Brett B as well

When primary is done, rack to secondary, add the oak cubes (treated as above) and orange zest. After c. 3 weeks, taste for oakiness; you want the overall oak to be just a bit more than you'd want in the final product. If it's not there yet, taste again every week (or longer if it was nowhere near).

Once you're there, rack to a new secondary. Let bulk age for 6 months before bottling.
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On deck: Little Bo Pils, Bretta Off Dead (Brett pale)
Secondary: Oude Bruin, Red Sky at Morning (Sour brown ale)
On tap: Saison Duphunk (sour), Amarillo Slim (IPA), Earl White (ginger/bergamot wit)
Bottled: Number 8 (Belgian Strong Dark Ale), Eternale (Barleywine), Ancho Villa (Ancho/pasilla/chocolate/cinnamon RIS), Oak smoked porter (1/2 maple bourbon oaked, 1/2 apple brandy oaked)

 
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Old 05-16-2010, 06:52 PM   #5
Brocster
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Thanks everyone for the feedback. I am going to try to get a good replica going. Great ideas from the posters here...

btw... I really like Matilda too. I think it is a fantastic beer, but I was blown away by Sofie, especially since the style is not my favorite.

What does everyone think of fermentation temps? I am wondering if mid 70's ambient is the right call.
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Bottled: Imperial Hefe, Saison, Apfelwein
Kegged: ESB, Foundation Stout, Brothers English IPA, Kolsch, Bavarian Hefe
Secondary: Abbey Dubbel
Primary: Imperial Cherry Bavarian Hefe, Imperial Cherry Brussel Abbey
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Old 05-16-2010, 10:08 PM   #6
SumnerH
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I'd pitch at 70F ambient and let it free rise. The 3711 doesn't need to ferment as hot as the Belgian saison yeast.
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On deck: Little Bo Pils, Bretta Off Dead (Brett pale)
Secondary: Oude Bruin, Red Sky at Morning (Sour brown ale)
On tap: Saison Duphunk (sour), Amarillo Slim (IPA), Earl White (ginger/bergamot wit)
Bottled: Number 8 (Belgian Strong Dark Ale), Eternale (Barleywine), Ancho Villa (Ancho/pasilla/chocolate/cinnamon RIS), Oak smoked porter (1/2 maple bourbon oaked, 1/2 apple brandy oaked)

 
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Old 05-17-2010, 04:19 AM   #7
Ketchepillar
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I was underwhelmed by Sofie. I guess I need to try it again. There's definitely Brett B in there, but not a ton (although I bet this varies with bottle age). I would mash lower and add the brett later otherwise I think you'll end up with too much Brett character.
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:00 PM   #8
SumnerH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketchepillar View Post
I was underwhelmed by Sofie. I guess I need to try it again. There's definitely Brett B in there, but not a ton (although I bet this varies with bottle age). I would mash lower and add the brett later otherwise I think you'll end up with too much Brett character.
Could be. Sofie seemed to have a pretty reasonable brett character to me--not overwhelming, but it was a noticeably funky beer. Like you say that probably varies with age.

Usually for a bretty-beer I'll mash high and pitch brett together with the main strain, so I was thinking a normal (153ish) mash temp and a 2 day delay on the brett pitch would mute it some (especially since the 3711 Saison is a beast; it rips through wort IME). But I could see it being too much, especially if your Sofie was light on the brett character.

Of course, the joy of homebrewing is that ultimately it's up to what Brocster wants taste-wise just as much as what Sofie did tastewise!

Brett B (as opposed to Brett C or L) was just a guess based on my memory of the flavor--Sofie seemed barnyard/leathery, but nothing really in the way of sourness or fruitiness. Any other ideas are certainly welcome.
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On deck: Little Bo Pils, Bretta Off Dead (Brett pale)
Secondary: Oude Bruin, Red Sky at Morning (Sour brown ale)
On tap: Saison Duphunk (sour), Amarillo Slim (IPA), Earl White (ginger/bergamot wit)
Bottled: Number 8 (Belgian Strong Dark Ale), Eternale (Barleywine), Ancho Villa (Ancho/pasilla/chocolate/cinnamon RIS), Oak smoked porter (1/2 maple bourbon oaked, 1/2 apple brandy oaked)

 
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Old 05-18-2010, 07:13 AM   #9
thataintchicken
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here is an interesting video with the Goose Island Brewer.

http://www.bsbrewing.com/blog/2010/05/table-beer/
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Old 09-08-2010, 06:30 PM   #10
midfielder5
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I had it last weekend.
I'm thinking WY 3724 (Belgian saison) might be the way to go instead of the French saison WY 3711.
My reasoning being that the above brewer video notes acid on the finish which is in the WY description of # 3724 & not # 3711.
thoughts?

anyone brewed the clone?



 
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