Can't quite grasp making starter yeast....

Hey everyone! As I am sure you can tell I am a complete n00b in brewing. I am very into it and very into doing it correctly. I just got done reading Palmer's "How to Brew" for the SECOND time today. After the first read and additional research I wanted to read again to pick up on more things which I totally did. I think I am ready except for this one part...... Making a starter yeast.

I am using an extract kit I bought through northernbrewer. It is a Dead Guy clone http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/grateful-dead-guy-extract-kit.html This is it in case someone can look at the specs and help me. I have read that it is always smart to start out with a starter yeast. This kit comes with a smack pack of pacman yeast. The part I am struggling with is how to mix it. Palmer says to mix in 1/2 cup of dry malt extract which I don't think I have in the kit. If I do have it in the kit can I use that and not have to worry about having enough extract when brew day comes? Does this mixture basically replace the missing extract I think I have? Is there another way to do this with out the extract if one of the extracts in my kit isn't correct to use for this? Also, once the starter kit is ready, do I pitch all the starter that I have just created to the wort? Do I really even need to do this?

I am still waiting for my brew kettle to arrive and plan on brewing a week from today. If this topic has been beaten to death around here I do apologize as I am new. I tried searching and couldn't find anything on this subject. Any help and or tips would be greatly appreciated.

You don't HAVE to make a starter, but it can make for a faster start to fermentation and quicker time to completion...

Your kit probably didn't come with extra DME / LME for a starter...

Here is a good thread for how to make a starter...

Yeast starter pictorial

As far as what to do for pitching, most people recommend decanting most of the liquid in your starter vessel, but leave enough to mix up all the yeast into a slurry and add that to your chilled wort in the fermenter...

Good luck and let us know how it comes out!

I use to decant... but now I'm a firmly in the "pitch at high krausen" camp (like Palmer recommends). Do yourself a favor and buy about 5 lbs of DME to have it on hand. ALWAYS do a yeast starter unless you're dealing with dry yeast. Pitch at high krausen and be sure to oxygenate your wort. You will not be dissapointed. No more green apple or off-flavors!

Well this stinks that I have to order more stuff now that I already got everything. Does it matter what dry malt extract I get? I am seeing a lot of different ones. Remember, I am a complete noob here. I know I don't have to use a starter but it seems everywhere and everyone I talk to tells me that it is the right way to go and I am all about doing this right the first time.

RobbieRedBeard said:

Well this stinks that I have to order more stuff now that I already got everything. Does it matter what dry malt extract I get? I am seeing a lot of different ones. Remember, I am a complete noob here. I know I don't have to use a starter but it seems everywhere and everyone I talk to tells me that it is the right way to go and I am all about doing this right the first time.

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Get the lightest malt extract you can find- light or extra light. That way, you can use it in any beer at all without affecting the color of your beer.

RobbieRedBeard said:

Well this stinks that I have to order more stuff now that I already got everything. Does it matter what dry malt extract I get? I am seeing a lot of different ones. Remember, I am a complete noob here. I know I don't have to use a starter but it seems everywhere and everyone I talk to tells me that it is the right way to go and I am all about doing this right the first time.

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You can still make good beer without a starter. If you don't want to spend more money right now, you don't have to. I, as well as most other homebrewers, accumulated all of our equipment over months and years.

One thing that is more important than a yeast starter is temperature control during fermentation. If you don't have that down, nothing will help your beer.

Everything else being equal, you will make better beer with a starter.

I always use Extra Pale DME. I always keep a few pounds of it around for a few different uses.

Eric

Thanks Yooperbrew. Can you guys recommend a good cheap site to order this from? I have been using northern brewer which is great with their flat shipping but, even that shipping price seems expensive with such a little product. Can you get this anywhere else besides a brew supply shop?

One thing that is more important than a yeast starter is temperature control during fermentation. If you don't have that down, nothing will help your beer.

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Do you mean just keeping my primary in a temperature controlled room?

Have you called "Just Brew it" in jacksonville? http://www.justbrewitjax.com/ Most websites will charge you about $7 just for shipping, which is more than what you would pay for a pound of DME. Stopping by a local place will save you a few bucks, plus, give you an opportunity to pick up some pointers.

RobbieRedBeard said:

Do you mean just keeping my primary in a temperature controlled room?

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You need to keep the fermenting beer at the temperature recommended by the manufacturer. For most people during the summer, this requires more work than just putting it in a room by itself.

As far as temp control, I have worked out a system (with the help of others here) where I can keep the carboy up to 15 degrees cooler than ambient by adding frozen water bottles to a carboy in a water bath. By having a large amount of water (up to the 5 gallon mark), the beer doesn't have huge temp swings. I talked about it in this threadthread. It starts on post #10 and there are pictures on post #28.

Eric

RobbieRedBeard said:

Do you mean just keeping my primary in a temperature controlled room?

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That helps, but you should have or put a little sticky thermometer on your primary. From there, you want to monitor the temperature of your beer as it ferments and keep it at a fairly constant temperature within the proper range (which is typically 65-70). BUT, as your beer ferments, it creates heat, so it will be a little warmer than the temperature of the room.

Have you called "Just Brew it" in jacksonville? http://www.justbrewitjax.com/

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I actually went there a little over a week ago. The price he was charging for a beginners starter kit was pretty expensive compared to what I was able to get online. I feel bad going back in there and just buying LME but i'll just do it. I know it sounds lame but I am just weird like that. It seemed like no one ever went into the store....

You need to keep the fermenting beer at the temperature recommended by the manufacturer. For most people during the summer, this requires more work than just putting it in a room by itself.

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Well this brings me to another question. I was planning on keeping it in the pantry downstairs but am a bit worried about it. What I really wanted to do is keep the primary in my closet upstairs which is oddly the coolest place in the house and it maintains the same temperature through out the day. I just thought the process of carrying that far up and down stairs would slosh it around too much. Is it worth it to do this for the steady cool temps? It says the optimum temp for this brew 60-70.

RobbieRedBeard said:

Well this brings me to another question. I was planning on keeping it in the pantry downstairs but am a bit worried about it. What I really wanted to do is keep the primary in my closet upstairs which is oddly the coolest place in the house and it maintains the same temperature through out the day. I just thought the process of carrying that far up and down stairs would slosh it around too much. Is it worth it to do this for the steady cool temps? It says the optimum temp for this brew 60-70.

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Keep it in the coolest place you can. The fermenting beer can be much warmer than ambient. Fermentation is an exothermic (produces heat) process. If you closet stays around 65, it will be ok. If not, you would benefit from a method to keep the fermenter cool.

Eric

I'm a noob too but he said comes with a smack pack. Can't he just activate the pack at an approprite amount of time before pitching?

Bithead said:

I'm a noob too but he said comes with a smack pack. Can't he just activate the pack at an approprite amount of time before pitching?

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He definitely can. It will make beer. Probably good beer!

But, everything else being equal, it would be better with a starter.

Eric

I'm a noob too but he said comes with a smack pack. Can't he just activate the pack at an approprite amount of time before pitching?

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I can, but I am trying to make this the best way possible and from my understanding that is by making a starter.

Eric- So me moving the primary up and down the stairs shouldn't bother it that much? I will obviously try and keep it as still as possible and when it is racking time. If so, when I move it downstairs to the kitchen where I will rack should I let it sit for a certain amount of time to let things settle?

RobbieRedBeard said:

I can, but I am trying to make this the best way possible and from my understanding that is by making a starter.

Eric- So me moving the primary up and down the stairs shouldn't bother it that much? I will obviously try and keep it as still as possible and when it is racking time. If so, when I move it downstairs to the kitchen where I will rack should I let it sit for a certain amount of time to let things settle?

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It will move the trub around a bit, but that will settle rather quickly afterward. Be careful if you are moving a glass carboy up or down stairs...safety first.

I usually move my carboy a few hours before I rack to keg, but I've done it thirty minutes before and it was fine. I also put a textbook under the bottom (of the back) of the carboy so it is tilted. That way I can get more beer out.

Eric

Cool, thanks for all your help. I am using a bucket and not a carboy which will make the move easier.

RobbieRedBeard said:

Cool, thanks for all your help. I am using a bucket and not a carboy which will make the move easier.

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Brew Strong Brother :rockin:

Eric

I dont understand why more people dont reccomend using some of the malt extract that's in the recipe. If it's dme instead of lme (not in the OPs case - but this is why I started getting dme), is to use some of the dme that's in the recipe, and just pitch the whole starter, that way there's no worries about decanting or affecting the color or taste.

doctorRobert said:

I dont understand why more people dont reccomend using some of the malt extract that's in the recipe. If it's dme instead of lme (not in the OPs case - but this is why I started getting dme), is to use some of the dme that's in the recipe, and just pitch the whole starter, that way there's no worries about decanting or affecting the color or taste.

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A fantastic suggestion.

Find out how big your starter needs to be at mrmalty.com Then use 1g DME per 10ml water (eg. 100g DME in 1000ml water) to hit that size.

Eric

RobbieRedBeard said:

I actually went there a little over a week ago. The price he was charging for a beginners starter kit was pretty expensive compared to what I was able to get online. I feel bad going back in there and just buying LME but i'll just do it. I know it sounds lame but I am just weird like that. It seemed like no one ever went into the store....

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I don't blame you one bit for buying your kit online if the local place was charging that much more. I wouldn't worry about going back in and buying supplies if it saves you cash. That's why you bought your kit online. It was cheaper. If you only need 1 lb of DME or LME or whatever and its cheaper to buy it locally than online (because of shipping), by all means do so. I have a place a mile from my house, but they are somewhat limited on ingredients, so I have tended to buy stuff online. Since shipping is usually a flat rate, I'll order a couple kits or ingredients for a couple batches because its cheaper. If I just need something small, it makes more sense for me to run down the street and pay a little more for what I need than pay double because of shipping. Also, time is a factor. If I'm bottling and somehow forgot to order or pre buy caps.... Make sense?

You'll be fine with moving your beer. Just move slowly and try to slosh it around as little as you can. I store my beer up 2 sets of stairs from where I bottle and rack it and its fine moving it. Obviously there are limits, but I think it would take some rough treatment.

Good luck to you.

Hey guys! I finally got the LME today and plan on doing the starter friday so I can brew Saturday. One last question I have before I start my journey. So it is 2 cups of water to 1/2 cup LME. My question is: Once this starts up and I am ready to pitch, do I just pour the ENTIRE thing in the primary? From what I am gathering this is what I do. I'd just feel better with confirmation.

Thanks again for everyones help. This board is so welcoming and helpful to beginners and it really is a breath of fresh air compared to other boards I am involved in. Thanks again.

RobbieRedBeard said:

Hey guys! I finally got the LME today and plan on doing the starter friday so I can brew Saturday. One last question I have before I start my journey. So it is 2 cups of water to 1/2 cup LME. My question is: Once this starts up and I am ready to pitch, do I just pour the ENTIRE thing in the primary? From what I am gathering this is what I do. I'd just feel better with confirmation.

Thanks again for everyones help. This board is so welcoming and helpful to beginners and it really is a breath of fresh air compared to other boards I am involved in. Thanks again.

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Read this. It will answer all of your questions.

This calculator will tell you how big your starter should be. Make sure that you select the right type of starter. You will probably be doing a simple starter or intermittent shaking.

The formula is 1g DME per 10ml water. A starter should be at least 1000ml. You can either dump the whole thing in (easier) or chill and decant. I usually just dump the whole thing in.

DME is much easier to use to make a starter by the way because it is easier to measure.


Eric

Not hard to make a starter.

If your are not using a stir plate you typically need a 2 litre starter. I recommend ordering a 2 litre flask. They can be used directly on a gas stove and with bit of coat hanger and pliers you can use them on an electric one also. Once you've boiled starter the flask can go strait into ice bath for proper pitching temp.

I put the flask on scale zero it out. Then add 150-200 grams of dme and 10x the water based on whatever size it needs to be. I add yeast nutrient and fermcap.

Bring it all to a boil, cool and pitch. I use aluminum foil on top. I dont aerate because I use a stir plate.

I always completely ferment out, cold crash and decant my starters. I do this mostly because I've super oxidized my starter(stir plate) and its icky. Plus I like growing the proper amount of yeast and putting them to bed so they will be all rested and have strong reserves and cell walls.

My system has worked great and all my batches have been extreemly vigorous. You can also use jars and such if u dont have a flask. I once needed to make a 3liter starter for an imperial. I used an old gallon pickle jar. Now I have a 5liter flask.

Alright, finally brewed yesterday. Couple of things happened, mainly one big one. It took forever for me to get to my boil and there was never a hot break. I looked at older threads on here and see that has happened to others that don't have a strong stove. The good news is that I got done with brewing around 5 last night and at 8 this morning it is bubbling like crazy!

I checked my fermometer and it was running higher than i'd like it to be so I put it in a tub filled with water and threw in frozen water bottles like you said. I even wet a towel with the ice water and draped it over the top of the fermentor to really insulate it. I put a piece of tape of the fermometer to try and not ruin it but it is submerged under water so I won't really trust the reading. How could do I want the bath to be since I can't tell how hot the primary is anymore?

Keep changing your water bottles as they melt for a few days, then trust the yeast to do their job. The beer will come out awesome.
Congrats on your first batch!

Do I have to try to keep the temperature for the full 3 weeks or just during the active fermentation stage? My fermometer is reading about 65 right now but I don't know if I trust it. The bath it is in is at 62.

RobbieRedBeard said:

Do I have to try to keep the temperature for the full 3 weeks or just during the active fermentation stage? My fermometer is reading about 65 right now but I don't know if I trust it. The bath it is in is at 62.

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Monitoring the temperature of the water bath is fine. It'll be within a couple of degrees of the water bath. I just use a cheap floating thermometer in the water bath since, as you said, the fermeometer no longer works if it gets wet.

I would keep it there for at least a week, and then allow it to warm up to maybe 70-72 or so for the rest of the time. I wouldn't let it get any higher than 72ish.

Awesome. Thank you all so much for your help and advice. It really has made this process so much easier and makes me more confident. I am off to start my 3 week long Grolsch drinking phase for them swing tops! Enjoy your Sunday!

RobbieRedBeard said:

I am off to start my 3 week long Grolsch drinking phase for them swing tops! Enjoy your Sunday!

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What dedication to your craft! I have about 4 cases of Grolsch bottles, so I know what you're going through. (Grolsch isn't too bad if you drink it VERY cold).

I found that I actually loved Sam Adams, and they have great (non-swingtop) bottles that the label comes off of easily, so that was easier to take than the Grolsch.

It is going to be around 90+ here today. Drinking very cold Grolsch around the pool while I study will not be all that bad Not having to mess around with bottle caps seems like a valid investment to me. Once I am all through I will post my outcome!

RobbieRedBeard said:

It is going to be around 90+ here today. Drinking very cold Grolsch around the pool while I study will not be all that bad Not having to mess around with bottle caps seems like a valid investment to me. Once I am all through I will post my outcome!

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We really don't want to see the "outcome" of your drinking two cases of Grolsch - this is not that kind of website.

I meant the outcome of my beer.

YooperBrew said:

I found that I actually loved Sam Adams, and they have great (non-swingtop) bottles that the label comes off of easily, so that was easier to take than the Grolsch.

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Yup, I gotta admit that those guys at Boston Beer have a pretty good product line. I have a "few" 12'ers of their bottles.:cross:

Robbie just remember, as long as you like the beer you make then keep making the beer you like. Then drink it!

If others like your beer then by all means, share it and be proud!

Good luck and keep us posted!

RobbieRedBeard said:

I meant the outcome of my beer.

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I was just clarifying this for Yooper's sake - she's delicate like a flower . . . .