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Old 05-04-2010, 01:44 PM   #1
permo
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Well, I initially was shooting for ESB, but since I am having issues getting english yeast and appropriate hops, I am changing gears and have modified my recipe, to be an experimental American Style Pale Ale, except that I plan on using WLP029 (german ale/kolsch) yeast and giving the brew a short lagering period after fermentation, I may or may not give it a cascade dry hop during this period.

According to white labs, WLP029 accentuates hop flavor like WLP001, so I am hoping that this will be a good marriage, it should surely be drinkable. My final grain bill and hop schedule is below.

10.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 86.88 %
1.13 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 9.82 %
0.38 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.30 %
0.50 oz Chinook [11.50 %] (60 min) Hops 18.3 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [4.80 %] (20 min) Hops 4.6 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (15 min) Hops 4.3 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [4.80 %] (10 min) Hops 2.8 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [4.80 %] (5 min) Hops 1.5 IBU
1.00 oz Williamette [4.80 %] (1 min) Hops 0.7 IBU

I was thinking of mashing at 152, primary ferment for 3 weeks at 62, and a two week lagering or cold aging secondary.

Opinions and suggestions are greatly appreciated.



 
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:20 PM   #2
greenbirds
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That looks great to me. I like the Cascade/Willamette combo. And the Kolsch yeast does make a great pale ale, if Biermuncher's Fire Rock Pale Ale clone is any indication.



 
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:35 PM   #3
permo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenbirds View Post
That looks great to me. I like the Cascade/Willamette combo. And the Kolsch yeast does make a great pale ale, if Biermuncher's Fire Rock Pale Ale clone is any indication.
I am glad another set of eyes, thinks it looks good. I am just so sick of always using neutral yeast like US-05, Pacman and Nottingham. I figured it was time to experiment with some different, possible more flavorfull, yeast strains. From what I understand WLP029, is fairly neutral but if it does throw esters they will me somewhat fruity, I figure the cascade citrus flavor/aroma would be a good combo with that.

THe only thing I am really worried about is that the WLP-029 is supposedly less attenuative than US-05 WLP001........however I have had it take a 1.052 kolsch down to 1.010...but that was with a 149 mash temp.

 
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:01 PM   #4
daveooph131
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I use wlp029 as my house yeast. Love it with pale ales too!!! Expect about 73 percent attenuation if you mash at 152...That's what I get.
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:11 PM   #5
AnOldUR
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Sounds like a tasty idea and it got me thinking, I've got some harvested Kolsch yeast in the beer fridge and might give it a try. The yeast I have is Wyeast 2565 Kolsch. Strange thing is I checked out the yeast comparison chart and find that it's not listed as a match with WLP029.

Are there any characteristics that you were looking for in WLP029 that 2565 might not have? Or the opposite, would 2565 add something undesirable?

I've done a couple of Kolsch's with 2565 fermented in the low 60 and been very pleased with the results. There was a slight apple aroma, but it didn't follow though to the flavor of finish.

Reason: wrong wyeast# in 1st paragraph

 
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:16 PM   #6
permo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOldUR View Post
Sounds like a tasty idea and it got me thinking, I've got some harvested Kolsch yeast in the beer fridge and might give it a try. The yeast I have is Wyeast 2526 Kolsch. Strange thing is I checked out the yeast comparison chart and find that it's not listed as a match with WLP029.

Are there any characteristics that you were looking for in WLP029 that 2565 might not have? Or the opposite, would 2565 add something undesirable?

I've done a couple of Kolsch's with 2565 fermented in the low 60 and been very pleased with the results. There was a slight apple aroma, but it didn't follow though to the flavor of finish.
For some reason I just gravitate towards white labs over wyeast, that is the only reason I chose WLP029 over the Wyeast offering.


The more I keep getting positive input on this idea, the more excited I get about this brew. I am going to try and coax 6.5 gallons of 1.050 OG pale ale out of this grain, and I have a 1 gallon WLP029 starter in the works...I am a fan of 1 gallon starters..it really makes for a nice healthy fermentation.

I have found this yeast to make a very "German" flavored kolsch when matched with german pilsen malt and hops, I think the yeast just adds a little floral/fruity boquet/nose to the beer, and lets the malt and hops show through, but still adds more charachter than a US-05 style yeast.

I think attenuation can be manipulated by raising temps towards the end of fermentation.

I suppose I will mash at 152 just so I don't suck the body out of the beer too much!


 
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:57 PM   #7
ajwillys
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This sounds quite tasty, I love the kolsch yeast (only ever used Wyeast, but I'm sure they're similar).

If you decide to dry hop, I would recommend waiting til near the end of the lagering period. In my experience, kolsch needs at least 2 weeks in cold temps to mellow out a bit. The reason I would dryhop at the end is because dryhopping fades so quickly. I know some say dryhopping cold isn't as effective, but it still tastes fine.

 
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:02 PM   #8
permo
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I wonder if we may be doing WLP029 and similar German Ale yeast strains an injustice by using them strictly for Kolsch and Altbier type of applications. I am actually wondering if WLP029 might make a great imperial stout, I would wonder about the alcohol tolerance, but I think the fruity esters might really work well....or it could fail miserably.

 
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:16 AM   #9
greenbirds
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I read somewhere that WLP029 and 2565 are not the same strain. From what I understand the WLP029 flocculates better, while 2565 can ferment well at lower temps (White Labs recommends not going below 62 F)

 
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:21 AM   #10
ghpeel
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Basic Brewing Radio recently did a pale ale test with about 6 different strains of yeast, including some like the Kolsch strain that you don't normally associates with pales. The results were surprising. I think the Kolsch one turned out great.


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