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Old 04-21-2010, 07:20 PM   #1
May 2009
Poitou Charentes, France.
Posts: 10
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After a somewhat fruitless search here, there and everywhere I've drawn something of a blank on this matter.

I'm thinking from a perspective of calculating grain proportions in recipes. The relative α- / β-amylase content of proprietary malts must (I assume) vary by grain varietal, malting technique and degree of roast.

There's a good technical explanation of the °Lintner score on Wikipedia but in the real world I don't see a tremendous amount of discussion of that nor of the key thing I'm after...

I'd like an understanding of how the diastase score for assorted base malts relates to the ability for the mash to covert a specific weight of non-malted grain (barley/wheat/rye etc. etc.)

So, for every Kg of a 3 SRM/EBC Pils malt it'll convert itself and (say) 250g of unmalted wheat or 270g of corn.

Does such a thing exist anywhere?

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Old 04-21-2010, 07:29 PM   #2
Oct 2007
QCA, Iowa
Posts: 959
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The general rule I've always heard is you need a diastatic power of around 35-40 to convert in a reasonable amount of time. This means if the DP of your base malt is 80, it would be able to convert itself and an equal amount of a non-enzymatic grain. How that relates to the °Lintner isn't going to be direct, though, as different processes and different grains will have different effects.

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Old 04-22-2010, 12:59 AM   #3
Senior Member
ajf's Avatar
Oct 2005
Long Island
Posts: 4,646
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I don't think that what you are looking for could exist in reality.
The diastatic power of malt is undoubtedly important in determining if the base malts can fully convert the adjuncts if you use a large amount of adjuncts, but this diastatic power will be highly dependent on various other factors, such as mash temperature, mash thickness, mash pH etc.
Although it certainly won't give you all the information you need, http://www.brewingtechniques.com/bmg/noonan.html does give you some information on this subject.
I must admit that I never brew beers with a high %age of adjuncts. (I have never exceeded 10%), but I use British pale malts to provide the diastase, and they provide less diastatic power than most other base malts. I'm sure I could theoretically use more adjuncts without any conversion problems, but that wouldn't produce the sort of beers that I like.

There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

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Old 01-11-2017, 11:29 AM   #4
Nov 2016
Posts: 29
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Could none malt mash be made with addition of high diastase honey being put in the mash water , this of course isn't game planned at brewing a complete beer with just this no malts just honey for amylase action wort I was kind of wondering if I were to decide to do a small batch of wort for the purpose of adding to a mead when the mead is transferred to secondary to make a braggot out of the majority or half of the mead by adding fresh wort that is just made up of some pearl barley and wild rice( I love the flavor of wild rice and wild rice beer is fire so why wouldn't I want some of those notes in a small proportion of a braggot that is aimed at being complex ) kind of here's my idea of what I could do without having to go out to my local homebrew shop( it is not local at all to be clear and I have plenty of pearled barley and wild rice on hand for the size im talking about where going out and buying just a few lb of grain when I don't have any other brews planned yet im wanting to get this thing into secondary before I even start game planning my next brew ) and im not looking to add a lot of maltiness to the flavor profile just enough that it can be a highly complex braggot flavor I mean don't get me wrong I understand mashing without malt sounds like waste of time and grain but I figure honey has amylase I want additional honey in the addition made at secondary anyways and using the unmalted grains I literally have to much of instead of having to go buy just a couple lbs of malt because I don't know when ill be starting my next full on brew day but I do know I don't want to buy the grains and try to keep them from humidity in mobile alabama for a beer that I may not have time to brew up for a couple of months( and currently I have my grain ground for me at the home brew store ) but I figure plenty of malt sugars should become available if I where to do this as a small batch situation almost like the specialty grains brew in a bag kind of situation just take the grains pour them into the bag pour a reasonable amount of honey over them then to insure no dough balling happens with it seeming pretty likely that parts will be soaked in honey just put it in the bottom of the mash tun add the mash in water over the top( I know it is supposed to go mash water then mash in the grains but im like **** im wanting to break all the rules on this project) make sure the bag is pushed around a good bit to prevent dough balling let her sit keep her at temp( im thinking somewhere in the 148-154 range because fermentable sugars may help some but the harder to ferment sugars that lend flavor are the main goal of this whole thing of course) for quite some time like 3 hours of course stirring the bag a good bit and I figure the wild rice should make it far less likely to become overly gelatinous while lending it's flavor and starches to this super special braggot creation that I kind of figure ill let sit for quite awhile I'm still drinking on my Guinness clone I made a couple months ago and have 2 other brews(an overhopped(38 ibu) barley wine kina thing with wild rice and pearled barley that I ended up with a lot left over on, and a gruit I only made 3 gallons of that has everything from wormwood ground morning glory seeds and lemonbalm to giant sage and dried Asian chili peppers sitting in the secondary for the last month or so) I can wait on her , but would this be a possibility I know it sounds quite plausible to me or is this something some one has tried and failed with?

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