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Old 12-04-2006, 12:41 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikebryan
Although it is a killer, CO won't rise into the rest of the house until the basement is filled. CO is heavier than air and will settle in the basement; as more is produced it will continue to build and build, eventually rising up into the rest of the house.....of course, you'd be dead in the basement by the time this happened.

High volume propane torches and indoor use don't mix.

Sorry- I don't want to argue. But I'm pretty sure that I learned that CO is slightly lower in density than regular "air" (which is mostly nitrogen), or about the same density. The molecular weight of CO is 28.01, while "air" is 28.975. Close, but CO is slightly lower, and will rise. And the warmer the ambient temperature, the more it will rise.

CO detector instructions:
You should install at eye level or above, but not closer than 6 inches to the ceiling. Avoid detectors which are placed near the floor as carbon monoxide rises quickly toward the ceiling. If placed in the kitchen, do not install unit within 5 feet of cooking appliances which can emit carbon monoxide when cooking. Carbon monoxide is the leading cause of accidental poisoning deaths in America, according to the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). Over 2,500 people in the US ill die each year and over 10,000 will be hospitalized from carbon monoxide.


Regardless of density, CO poisoning is no joke and there is never any reason to take a risk. It needs to be outside, and well ventilated.

That's my EMT/Paramedic training talking. But still, be safe. It just is never a good idea to use an unvented appliance, no matter what type, in your home.

Lorena
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Old 12-05-2006, 12:08 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorenae
Sorry- I don't want to argue. But I'm pretty sure that I learned that CO is slightly lower in density than regular "air" (which is mostly nitrogen), or about the same density. The molecular weight of CO is 28.01, while "air" is 28.975. Close, but CO is slightly lower, and will rise. And the warmer the ambient temperature, the more it will rise.

CO detector instructions:
You should install at eye level or above, but not closer than 6 inches to the ceiling. Avoid detectors which are placed near the floor as carbon monoxide rises quickly toward the ceiling. If placed in the kitchen, do not install unit within 5 feet of cooking appliances which can emit carbon monoxide when cooking. Carbon monoxide is the leading cause of accidental poisoning deaths in America, according to the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). Over 2,500 people in the US ill die each year and over 10,000 will be hospitalized from carbon monoxide.


Regardless of density, CO poisoning is no joke and there is never any reason to take a risk. It needs to be outside, and well ventilated.

That's my EMT/Paramedic training talking. But still, be safe. It just is never a good idea to use an unvented appliance, no matter what type, in your home.

Lorena
You may be right. I was thinking about CO2, which I know is denser and will sink. However, you will die from it long before it suffuses out of the basement and into the rest of the house.

 
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Old 12-27-2006, 01:32 AM   #23
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I think I'll just buy a canary.

 
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Old 12-27-2006, 01:54 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toot
I think I'll just buy a canary.
Buy a CO detector - if it starts annoying you, it's time to leave. The opposite is true with the canary.
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Old 12-27-2006, 02:22 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drinker
I was wondering if it would be safe to use my propane burner in my basement?
I have a compromise situation with the basement...I used my burner in the outside stairwell with the bilco doors open (to what degree depends on the weather but I can always get a good "outdraft" of exhaust to the exterior as needed). Very convenient as the sink, hose tap and benchtop are all in easy reach.

 
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Old 12-27-2006, 02:41 AM   #26
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Just use it in a well ventilated area, if the basement door is open it will probably suffice. I 've brewed in an enclosed area with no problems but ventilation is always a good idea!!

 
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Old 12-27-2006, 03:07 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smogman
Just use it in a well ventilated area, if the basement door is open it will probably suffice. I 've brewed in an enclosed area with no problems but ventilation is always a good idea!!
Sorry man, that is WRONG. I don't mean to be confrontational but it needs saying. If you want to do it that's fine but you shouldn't encourage others to brew in an enclosed or confined space without a flue. If in doubt I'm sure the fire department would do a safety inspection and advise you.

Never use a burner in a confined space with out adequate ventilation.
It's not a good idea to have ventilation its a MUST. probably suffice is not good enough.

People die all the time from carbon monoxide poisoning.
At the very least it will make you sick and give you a bad head.
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Old 12-27-2006, 03:25 AM   #28
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You can usually tell the level in a LP tank by placing your hand on it and holding it there for a while, or by putting it in the cold and bringing it into a warmer area. The liquid level can be determined by moving your hand around and finding a difference between a colder part and a warmer part, indicating an interface between gas and liquid propane (the liquid should be colder).

I hope that makes sense as I've been drinking homebrews....

And be safe with that burner. I've been in a couple of situations where I've used LP burners for heat and I've started to feel out of the ordinarily tired, which was probably CO exposure. Keep it well ventilated.
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Old 12-27-2006, 04:35 AM   #29
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Propane is heavier than air. It WILL settle to the floor creating a nice explosive mixture/cloud. Under no circumstances should it be used in a basement and definately not in an area not WELL ventilated. An open garage door may or may not provide adequate ventilation. Cross ventilation is best ie: two open doors. Standing pilots from water heaters and heating units provide a great ignition source.
Might work many times, but it only takes once to ruin you day and maybe your neighbors as well.

 
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Old 12-27-2006, 04:37 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orfy
Sorry man, that is WRONG. I don't mean to be confrontational but it needs saying. If you want to do it that's fine but you shouldn't encourage others to brew in an enclosed or confined space without a flue.
[/B]People die all the time from carbon monoxide poisoning.
At the very least it will make you sick and give you a bad head.
Orgy is so right on this one. In Washington and Oregon in two days last week over 40 people died by using propane heaters in their garages from carbon monoxide poisoning. Don't even think about just cracking the door and all that crap. DON'T USE PROPANE IN ANY KIND OF ENCLOSED SPACE. BASEMENT. GARAGE. ANYTHING!

ONLY USE OUTSIDE. LIKE IN THE FRESH AIR.

 
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