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Old 03-06-2010, 12:12 PM   #1
Angeloboot
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Default Kegging/Aging Questions

I shouldn't drink a beer at 0700, so might as well talk about it--

I'm new to brewing, and newer to kegging. Have searched far and wide for the following, but haven't found sensible consistent answers yet (I know, it's the internet, etc.)

I am making two batches this weekend that taste wonderful after 4-6 months in the basement (50-58 degrees.) How do I do this in corny kegs? Some say carb up and then let sit somewhere, others say just put enough gas on to seal, disconnect, then sit. I'm wondering the why/fors of my options. My current set-up is a regulator with a two-way splitter on a 50lb tank. I'm without an extra refrigerator temporarily, but I'm in Michigan, which means my garage is a walk-in cooler right now. It seems like most people ferment, rack to corny, then have their beer in a fridge for carbonating and it stays there through serving. I'd like to accomplish two things (besides writing an epic post): Get that proper age taste, and serve some of a corny, then pull it off until I'd like to serve more.


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Old 03-06-2010, 12:39 PM   #2
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The only thing you need to do or worry about is making sure it stays sealed while its stored so you might as well carb it up anyway.

Carbed in storage will allow you to serve it sooner when you rotate it in.


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Old 03-09-2010, 03:10 AM   #3
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Sorry for the long wait there--thanks Bargain!
I like the idea of being able to rotate in on short notice, but I still am curious re: the conditioning process. From the reading I'm doing, it seems like people experience that fully carbing inhibits the aging/conditioning process, but I don't see a reason why it would as I'm not relying on yeast to do any real work. Also, if I carb it at 40ish degrees for a week or whatever the chart recommends, do I risk off-flavors by bringing it back up to 55-65 in the basement for a long while? I'm easily confused by the temperature guidelines w/r/t carbing and storing and serving. So brand new, I really need to join a brew club...

Thanks, again, for all the fine info HBT!
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Old 03-09-2010, 01:32 PM   #4
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When you carb it to serving temp and then warm it the psi will climb as the co2 will come out of solution and go into the head space. Once you cool it again it will reabsorb into the beer.

Beer conditions faster when its warmer. Of course there is an upper limit on temperature and beer quality.
Low temp slows all processes down but cold temperatures allow for faster clearing of the beer.

It is not ideal to swing the temp up and down. What it might do over the very long term is effect the stability of the beer. I would store it at basement temps if possible then serve. But its not a perfect world and if you want to pull a keg to serve another I personally would do it since its at relatively cool temps in your basement.
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Old 03-09-2010, 03:49 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeloboot View Post
Sorry for the long wait there--thanks Bargain!
I like the idea of being able to rotate in on short notice, but I still am curious re: the conditioning process. From the reading I'm doing, it seems like people experience that fully carbing inhibits the aging/conditioning process, but I don't see a reason why it would as I'm not relying on yeast to do any real work. Also, if I carb it at 40ish degrees for a week or whatever the chart recommends, do I risk off-flavors by bringing it back up to 55-65 in the basement for a long while? I'm easily confused by the temperature guidelines w/r/t carbing and storing and serving. So brand new, I really need to join a brew club...

Thanks, again, for all the fine info HBT!
I don't understand why carbonation would inhibit aging....the beer in bottles is carbed as it ages, and apparently that works fine for you....a keg is just a big bottle.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:46 PM   #6
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if I carb it at 40ish degrees for a week or whatever the chart recommends, do I risk off-flavors by bringing it back up to 55-65 in the basement for a long while?
I've done that with an English IPA. One thing I can say is that it has a permanent chill haze now. I kegged it, tossed it in the fridge and hooked up the co2. After 2 weeks I poured a sample pint and it was clear. I pulled it out of the fridge and left it for about 2 months before putting it back in the fridge. It's been at the same temp in the fridge for 6 weeks now and still has a chill haze
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:44 PM   #7
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I've done that with an English IPA. One thing I can say is that it has a permanent chill haze now. I kegged it, tossed it in the fridge and hooked up the co2. After 2 weeks I poured a sample pint and it was clear. I pulled it out of the fridge and left it for about 2 months before putting it back in the fridge. It's been at the same temp in the fridge for 6 weeks now and still has a chill haze
That is very odd. I wonder what could do that.
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Old 03-10-2010, 02:54 AM   #8
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shortyjacobs--

Ok, keeping in mind my theories are made with extract and noob, my thinking was: Yeast is still working in bottles, so that would mean that the conditioning I'm used to enjoying w/bottled recipes is coming from the yeastly carbing. Also, it seems like swings in temperature are strongly discouraged in the things I've read, so hence my asking about what temps/pressure conditions to start at when the beer is first racked into cornys.
After doing some more thorough searching w/ a wider variety of keywords, I think I have firmed up the ideas originally bounced around 6 posts ago, to wit:
1. If there isn't a plan on drinking right away, hit the corny with 20 or so psi to seal, and then condition to heart's content at temperatures anywhere from 35-65, depending on style and equipment.
2. If carbing right away, the beer will still condition, though colder temperatures and co2 will delay the process.
3. Use charts for volumes, and serve at the same pressure as carbing (which still baffles me--anytime my regulator goes above 15 or so psi, I get a foam party. I definitely need to read/understand more, but I've blown through 1 batch already just toying around with pressures for curiosity's sake.)
Although all the above leads to an interesting proposition: If I like the bottle-conditioned flavors, can I add corn sugar to a corny-keg, let the yeast do their thing, then use a jumper cable from one corny to the next to filter out sediment, thus leaving me with bottle-conditioned taste and pressure, but no yeast sediment?
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Old 03-10-2010, 03:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeloboot View Post
shortyjacobs--

Ok, keeping in mind my theories are made with extract and noob, my thinking was: Yeast is still working in bottles, so that would mean that the conditioning I'm used to enjoying w/bottled recipes is coming from the yeastly carbing. Also, it seems like swings in temperature are strongly discouraged in the things I've read, so hence my asking about what temps/pressure conditions to start at when the beer is first racked into cornys.
After doing some more thorough searching w/ a wider variety of keywords, I think I have firmed up the ideas originally bounced around 6 posts ago, to wit:
1. If there isn't a plan on drinking right away, hit the corny with 20 or so psi to seal, and then condition to heart's content at temperatures anywhere from 35-65, depending on style and equipment.
2. If carbing right away, the beer will still condition, though colder temperatures and co2 will delay the process.
3. Use charts for volumes, and serve at the same pressure as carbing (which still baffles me--anytime my regulator goes above 15 or so psi, I get a foam party. I definitely need to read/understand more, but I've blown through 1 batch already just toying around with pressures for curiosity's sake.)
Although all the above leads to an interesting proposition: If I like the bottle-conditioned flavors, can I add corn sugar to a corny-keg, let the yeast do their thing, then use a jumper cable from one corny to the next to filter out sediment, thus leaving me with bottle-conditioned taste and pressure, but no yeast sediment?
Your points seem pretty sound, (keep in mind that even in bottles, the yeast are only working for 2-3 weeks...after that all the conditioning is done under pressure).

In fact, you don't even need to jumper from one to the next. If you keg condition, or keg carbonate, (using sugar), your first 1-2 pints will be full of yeast and ugliness, but after that it will be golden, (first 1-2 pints of the KEG, that is, not first 1-2 pints each night...).

I don't even worry too much about transferring a bit of trub when I siphon from primary to keg. Unless you have huge hop chunks in there, all the sludge flushes out in the first pint or two. Of course, if you move the keg around after that, the sludge remaining will re-settle, and you'll get a cloudy pint or two again before it clears. But who moves kegs that much?


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Aging - None :-(
On tap - Big Dog, Apfelwein, Steppe 112 PA

My invisible AG sculpture, with no actual sculpture and a tiny footprint.
My Kegerator goes offroading!
My Coors Home Draft dispenser for boating/beering on the go.
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