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Old 03-23-2010, 01:27 AM   #21
mdwmonster
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so...let's see....this post, the Easy Partial Mash post, the Stovetop All-Grain post....do some editing, find a publisher and you have got a really nice book....

I'd buy it.

Mighty fine work.

 
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Old 05-25-2010, 05:17 PM   #22
surreal_trip
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DeathBrewer is my hero... Nuff Said

 
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Old 06-23-2010, 01:16 AM   #23
Reelale
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Good work man. That is very informative stuff. Very nuts and bolts type descriptions.

 
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:18 PM   #24
jollyjake
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Ok, real noob question, but I keep seeing grain references like yours to "2L" and "4L".
To what do these values refer?

Thanks,

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Old 06-29-2010, 03:28 PM   #25
Reelale
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L = lovibond rating, i.e the color that one could expect it to add to their beer.

 
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Old 06-29-2010, 05:19 PM   #26
jollyjake
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Reelale,

Thanks for the info, I googled Lovibond and immediately ran in to what appear to be conflicting statements:

http://www.defalcos.com/worldofgrain.htm say’s
“On most grains below, we will refer to (degrees) lovibond. This is simply a measure of the color of the various grains. For example, a pound of crystal malt with a lovibond rating of 40 will impart just as much color as two pounds of crystal malt that is rated at 20. Conversely, you would only need a tenth of pound of Black Patent Malt at 400 to impart the same amount of color as that pound of Crystal 40.”

While http://www.brewsource.com/BSrc_Edu/Ing_Gen.asp say's:
“Lovibond degrees cannot be added to achieve the same color and flavor as imparted by a malt of a higher rating. For example, using 2 pounds of 60 L degrees crystal will not produce the same darkening or flavor as 1 pound of 120 L degrees crystal”

I am I missing something or what?

So much to learn before I die...


 
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Old 06-29-2010, 08:05 PM   #27
agenthucky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jollyjake View Post
[FONT="Arial"][SIZE="4"][SIZE="2"]
My understanding of this is quite limited to what I've read on this topic, and isn't very definitive.

First, I will try answer your overall question. Degrees Lovibond, and more accurately used SRM (Standard Reference Method) of measuring the color of beer is not linear, but rather logrithmic. This is at the most basic level, mathematically. This means that doubling your Lovibond amount will not directly resemble a beer that is twice as dark.

Now, when reading about the color of beer, you won't take long to figure out it is the biggest PITA for brewers. There is no absolute way to measaure any color of beer. Lovibond used to be the standard, where you would take a set of cards, and compare them to the beer color. This leaves a lot of room for error. The thickness of the beer you look through, the distance from the card to the beer, and the light for observation need to be the same. In addition, I believe there is more than one set of Lovibond card systems. SRM is the measurement of the absorbance of a certain wavelength of light into the beer. The SRM value cannot accurately compare two similar colored beers, like amber, and light brown, but can compare golden hues to amber ones. The wavelengths of light from the color of the beer may be too similar for this type of measurement.

It is described well here:
http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2008/0...ibond-and-ebc/

This leads me to believe that the degree Lovibond is an aproximate value when maltsters figure it out.

Now, to relate it to the two references you listed. First of all, the one that claims degrees L is linear is a home brew store. They taylor to homebrewers, and probably don't have a great reference for that statement. Aproximate is almost always good enough for homebrewers. It's also true that the degree L changes (for a same product like Crystal 20L) between maltsters, and even bathces from the same maltster. So, if you take 1 lb 20L from one maltster, and 1 lb of 20L from another, there is a good chance you won't be at 40L. However, if, from the same batch, you add 1 lb of 20L, notice the color, and add an additional 1 lb of that same 20L, there is a good chance it will be close to twice that darkness in color. Now, that doesn't mean you're around 40L, because the scale is not linear.

I think from your references alone, I would ignore the home brew store, but in practicality, the aproximation would be good enough for a homebrewer.

Bottom line, the formula isn't linear.

 
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Old 06-29-2010, 08:14 PM   #28
agenthucky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agenthucky View Post
This leads me to believe that the degree Lovibond is an aproximate value when maltsters figure it out.

This is why a lot of craft brewers (as well as the big boys A-M-C) will keep blending batches of beer together before bottling. I have heard of breweries making X gallons, distributing half of that, make some more to replace it, and keep blending it. This averages out the change in the color of their beer. These breweries know that they get a difference in color from not only the different grains over time, but to subtle differences in the brew day. When they blend their beers, it is less of a shock to consumers that pour their beer.

It is VERY important that each Bud Light you buy be the same color. Even if it has the same crappy taste, consumers will be confused as to why their product (that they love soooo much) changed.

 
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:14 PM   #29
Reelale
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^^this. I would completely disregard your first linked source. 1 lbs. of 60L Crystal is not the same as 8 oz. of 120L Crystal.

 
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Old 06-30-2010, 01:17 AM   #30
lumpher
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depends on efficiency and actual caramelization of the grain, but if everything is correct, from what i've seen (and beersmith, my program of choice for years), 2 lbs of c20 should = 1 lb of c40 in color

 
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