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Old 02-16-2010, 04:05 AM   #1
ElDuderino
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I've been drinking Hopworks secession black ipa (cascadian dark ale) lately and really like it, so last night I started working on ideas for a recipe. I'm not too familiar with using the dark roasts, so I was looking for some feedback...

After searching online, I found that they used choc malt and carafa malt in the recipe. I think caramel malt was also mentioned. They seem to be mostly for color, as the beer's body is pretty light and there is not much roast character to the beer... It weighs in at 1.061 and 70 IBU.

Here's what I'm leaning toward:
12 gallons (13 gallon boil volume)
79% 20# American 2 row
7.9% 2# American Chocolate
7.9% 2# German Carafa II
3.9% 1# American Crystal 60L
1.3% .33# American Roasted Barley

For my system, this should give me an og of 1.060 with and SRM of 42... Nice and dark. Forty SRM seems to be what the style (unofficial) calls for.

I was planning on mashing at 149 or 150 to get a more fermentable wort.

I'm wondering about the chocolate and carafa additions. The carafa is debittered, so I wouldn't think it would be problematic... I don't this to be a roasty malty beer. I'm looking for something light with just a hint of roast character but deep color (that's the problem...)

 
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:32 AM   #2
daveooph131
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I'm wanting to try this styel too. I had Widmeir Brothers Pitch Black IPA...Great stuff. I think it's something like 66 OG 60 IBU.

Anyway, from looking at their website and talking to some other folks. I think you need to lower your chocolate and carafa II. Also, drop the Roasted Barley even a little bit goes a long way I think.

Carafa II debitterd as I gather will still give a slight roast flavor just not much. I would suggest 2% Carafa / 1% chocolate maybe. But then I'm not sure if you'll get enough color. also, up the crystal to maybe 8% of the bill. I like to layer the crystal malts...try 6% 120L / 2% 40L. Basically, I've heard the dark malts are there only to derive color to the beer.

I would really like to get some other people to weigh in on this.
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:56 AM   #3
ElDuderino
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Thanks for your advice! I'll mess around with the recipe using your advice and see what I get. I'm a little afraid of using too much crystal... I like the pitch black ipa too, but it is maltier than what I'm going for, which is inspired by the secession black ipa. It's not as malty but has a lot of fresh hop flavor.

 
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:32 AM   #4
LexusChris
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While I have not tried this style or that particular beer, I did recently brew a Pale Ale with a 1% Roasted Barley addition, and the roasty flavor was soft but noticable. If you are not into roasty ... I might skip that one.. (granted, in a pale ale, it was easy to pickup on the roasty .. in your grist, it might blend very well inbetween the chocolate & carafa)

Last month, I brewed an Amber Ale with 1% Carafa II, and that tasted much smoother.. not roasty... just some toasty sweetness.

Chocolate malt is pretty sweet to me. I've used 4% in a nice brown ale, and seen 6% used in porters and such.

So, perhaps you might consider:

Amount Item Type % or IBU
22.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 84.62 %
2.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 7.69 %
1.00 lb Carafa II (412.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %
1.00 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %

Est Original Gravity: 1.056 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.37 %
Est Color: 29.4 SRM

What does your hop profile look like?
--LexusChris


 
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:07 AM   #5

Quote:
Originally Posted by LexusChris View Post
Chocolate malt is pretty sweet to me. I've used 4% in a nice brown ale, and seen 6% used in porters and such.
--LexusChris
Chocolate malt is not sweet at all, sorry. It's a sort of roasted malt and adds no sweetness to beer. You might have been using it in conjunction with caramel/crystal and confusing which grain is adding what attribute. You can get all sorts of nutty, toasty flavors from it but sweetness is not one of them.
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:26 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattHollingsworth View Post
Chocolate malt is not sweet at all, sorry. It's a sort of roasted malt and adds no sweetness to beer. You might have been using it in conjunction with caramel/crystal and confusing which grain is adding what attribute. You can get all sorts of nutty, toasty flavors from it but sweetness is not one of them.
I concur. There is no sweetness from chocolate malt, and it really tastes nothing like chocolate either.

Taste your grains people!

 
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Old 02-16-2010, 06:18 PM   #7
LexusChris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattHollingsworth View Post
Chocolate malt is not sweet at all, sorry. It's a sort of roasted malt and adds no sweetness to beer. ... You can get all sorts of nutty, toasty flavors from it but sweetness is not one of them.
Matt is correct. I misspoke. My palate & vocabulary gets messed up on those flavors quite a bit.

I have a lot of respect for Matt's brewing experience & recipes! It would be great if he could give us a take on this grain bill...

Thanks all!
--LexusChris

 
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:28 PM   #8

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Originally Posted by LexusChris View Post
Matt is correct. I misspoke. My palate & vocabulary gets messed up on those flavors quite a bit.

I have a lot of respect for Matt's brewing experience & recipes! It would be great if he could give us a take on this grain bill...

Thanks all!
--LexusChris
I actually like what you did, personally. To me, 16% chocolate-like malt, which is what the original recipe amounts to, is a helluva lot. I'd cut that in half.

And thanks for the kind words.
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Old 02-17-2010, 05:31 AM   #9
ElDuderino
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Thanks again for all the input... Thanks for the grainbill LexusChris! It looks good -- I might lean towards what you've done.

I thought someone asked to see the hop schedule I was thinking of using, although I don't see the post anywhere so may be I imagined it, but I'll include it anyway...

The hopworks version uses nugget and magnum for bittering and centennial, atahnum, simcoe and amarillo for the finishing hops... I am not planning on throwing that many different hops in to my boil, but in trying to get a beer with a lot of fresh hop flavor and some aroma, I was thinking of doing a lot of late boil additions. So:
2 oz Nugget 60min
2 oz Cascade 30min
2 oz Amarillo 10min
2 oz Cascade 10min
2 oz Amarillo 5min
That gives me a total of 67 IBU or so with a gravity of 1.060. I personally like amarillo hops a lot and I have a bunch of cascades that I picked, dried and stored frozen in canning jars. I'm open to suggestions here, too, this is just what came to me...

By the way, if anyone is interested, here is an article about the guy lobbying hard to add cascadian dark ales to recognized by the American Homebrewer's Association. It outlines the style parameters he envisions.
http://brewpublic.com/places-to-drin...ian-dark-ales/

 
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Old 02-17-2010, 05:32 AM   #10
Matt Up North
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When I think of Cascadian Dark Ales, I think of an IPA that is black in color and not flavor. Otherwise you start getting into the category of really hoppy American Stout and that isn't what you are looking for. Not to post whore or steal a thread, but the Stone Anniversary XI thread gave out a really good recipe that I taylored to my personal preference and came up with a recipe that I am just about to rebrew. It is all about the flavor profile really screaming IPA if you were going to taste it blind and then you open your eyes and the darned thing is black!

I hope that this helps, but good luck and keep us informed.

PS...sorry no link to the Stone recipe, just search and you will get it. Go for the one that says what I typed above and not anything more. It is like a thirty page thread
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