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Old 02-15-2010, 02:09 AM   #11
ajf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_city_ap View Post
How would if affect the flavor? All you are losing is steam. All the minerals in the water stay behind, so that doesn't make alot of sense to me. Not that I'm saying its wrong, but I'd like to hear more about this. I may need to change up the way I've been doing things.
See http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html and look for DMS

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Old 02-15-2010, 02:23 AM   #12
robertvrabel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_city_ap View Post
How would if affect the flavor? All you are losing is steam. All the minerals in the water stay behind, so that doesn't make alot of sense to me. Not that I'm saying its wrong, but I'd like to hear more about this. I may need to change up the way I've been doing things.
Here is a thread about it...
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/wort...45/index2.html

And Palmer explaining DMS (1/2 way down)
http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

 
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:18 PM   #13
BierSnob
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the lid can be taken off when it reaches a full boil. It takes less energy to maintain a boil than to create one.

 
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:54 AM   #14
Bacchus
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Originally Posted by robertvrabel View Post
I've never tried this, but heard it to be effective: Wrap your brew pot in foil (all around the sides of it) and it will insulate your pot better and give you a better boil. You still might not be able to do 4 gallons, but find what gallon amount works best. To start the boil you can put the lid on too, then remove when you're about to brew... that will speed it up tremendously.
For containing heat, this wouldn't work. Aluminum is a conductor of heat and all wrapping your pot in foil would do is help to transfer more of the heat away from the boil. Basically, aluminum foil isn't an insulator.

 
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:03 AM   #15
Bacchus
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Originally Posted by Dr_Gordon_Freeman View Post
I would not do this. I've read many times that boiling with the lid on will negatively affect the flavor. (never done it myself)
Good grief! We've now complicated homebrewing to the point wherein we actually have differences over weather or not to boil with a lid on or off?

I've broken just about every "rule" in homebrewing that you could imagine and yet I still turn out great beers. Well....great to me, anyways.

Trust me....."lid on" or "lid off" doesn't make one bit of difference. That's someone's opinion and you know what they say about opinions, right?

 
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:05 AM   #16
FungusBrew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Gordon_Freeman View Post
I would not do this. I've read many times that boiling with the lid on will negatively affect the flavor. (never done it myself)
Boiling wort with the lid on will negatively affect flavor. Leaving DMS behind. Maybe this is what you're thinking. I don't see any problems boiling H20 with a lid on though?

 
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:10 AM   #17
TheFlatline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
Good grief! We've now complicated homebrewing to the point wherein we actually have differences over weather or not to boil with a lid on or off?

I've broken just about every "rule" in homebrewing that you could imagine and yet I still turn out great beers. Well....great to me, anyways.

Trust me....."lid on" or "lid off" doesn't make one bit of difference. That's someone's opinion and you know what they say about opinions, right?
You sound like you're making extract beers. DMS isn't as big of an issue if you're going with extracts. It *can* make a difference if you're going all grain. Note I didn't say it *would*, I said it *can*.

It's generally just a good habit to get into. Unless you have a tempered glass lid you're at risk of a boilover without realizing it if you boil with the lid on.

If you're having trouble getting water to boil, or even wort to boil, putting the lid on to get it up to a boil isn't a bad thing. DMS forms during the boil. Even I do it with my turkey fryer just to save on fuel and cut down the immense amount of time a brew can take.

PS: Get yourself a turkey fryer. When you boil 5 gallons of water in 25 minutes you'll thank yourself.

PPS: Lid on/lid off isn't exactly "new". It's been common knowledge for years.
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:31 AM   #18
mordantly
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i agree, if you can't support a rolling boil with the lid >75% off, you don't have "full military thrust!!!"

and starsan in the airlock.

 
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:29 PM   #19
BackBayBrewing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFlatline View Post
You sound like you're making extract beers. DMS isn't as big of an issue if you're going with extracts. It *can* make a difference if you're going all grain. Note I didn't say it *would*, I said it *can*.

It's generally just a good habit to get into. Unless you have a tempered glass lid you're at risk of a boilover without realizing it if you boil with the lid on.

If you're having trouble getting water to boil, or even wort to boil, putting the lid on to get it up to a boil isn't a bad thing. DMS forms during the boil. Even I do it with my turkey fryer just to save on fuel and cut down the immense amount of time a brew can take.

PS: Get yourself a turkey fryer. When you boil 5 gallons of water in 25 minutes you'll thank yourself.

PPS: Lid on/lid off isn't exactly "new". It's been common knowledge for years.
Just to be completely accurate, DMS doesn't form just during the boil. DMS FORMS, if there are significant DMS precursers in your wort, anytime the wort is over 140 degrees. But, during the boil is when DMS that has formed is released through the bubbles that come out of the wort while boiling.

Where you have significant precurseres is dependent mostly on what type of malt you use. The lower degree to which barley is malted, the more DMS potential of that malt. So, if you are using Pilsner Malt, then you have significant chance of creating DMS. If you are using 2-row, it is reduced and so on with other malt types.

It is very true though that if you are brewing extract brews, DMS is not as much of a concern and that is probably why Baccus is not noticing any problem with his beers even though he boils with the lid on.

For all-grain though, DMS is a very real concern and should be avoided if at all possible. DMS is not merely an academic subject in the world of brewing. Comercial brewers deal with it by venting the tops of their brewhouses and collecting condensation from the inside of the brew kettle so as to prevent DMS from falling back into the wort.

All this is simply the long way of saying what has already been said. Definitely use a lid to get your wort up to a boil if needed, but once you have reached a boil, you should remove the lid in order to facilitate removal of DMS from your wort.

Additionally, DMS is one of the reasons that it is so important that you cool the wort quickly after boiling. As long as the wort is between 212 and about 140, new DMS is being created and since you are no longer boiling it will not boil off. Therefore, the faster you get that temperature down, the less DMS will be in the beer.
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:09 PM   #20
TheFlatline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BackBayBrewing View Post
Just to be completely accurate, DMS doesn't form just during the boil. DMS FORMS, if there are significant DMS precursers in your wort, anytime the wort is over 140 degrees. But, during the boil is when DMS that has formed is released through the bubbles that come out of the wort while boiling.

...

It is very true though that if you are brewing extract brews, DMS is not as much of a concern and that is probably why Baccus is not noticing any problem with his beers even though he boils with the lid on.

For all-grain though, DMS is a very real concern and should be avoided if at all possible. DMS is not merely an academic subject in the world of brewing. Comercial brewers deal with it by venting the tops of their brewhouses and collecting condensation from the inside of the brew kettle so as to prevent DMS from falling back into the wort.
You're right, DMS is formed when the wort is hot, not just during the boil.

Also, you're absolutely right about the brewery venting off the steam. That's why driving by the Budweiser plant on brew day smells like wet cabbage and a dirty gym sock.
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