Mash-In: water to grain or grain to water?

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sergetania

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While trying to read as much as I can before my first AG I stumbled upon a significant difference in the mash-in procedures. I couldn't find any discussions on the forum regarding the subject.

John Palmer "How to brew" 3rd edition, page 201:

"3. Mash-in. You want to add the water to the grain, not the other way around. Use a saucepan or a plastic pitcher to pour in a gallon of your strike water at a time and stir between infusions. Don't try to pour 4 gallons of hot water into the mash tun all at once. You don't want to thermally shock the enzymes."

At the same time a lot of posts on the forum including the AG tutorials recommend adding the water to the mash tun first and then dumping in the grain. It seems it makes it easier to reach the desired mash temperature. But according to John Palmer that shocks the enzymes which can't be a good thing.

Can anyone please comment on this?

Thank you very much,
Sergei
 
I follow the advice from my local brew shop which was to start siphoning the water into the MLT through the drain, then as it slowly fills up with water scoop in the grain and mix as you go. This way you don't get any dry clumps.
 
I tend to follow Palmer's advice. I always add water to the grain. I take a 4 cup measuring glass pour the water in with that. After 4 full glasses I will stir the grains to make sure that I don't have any doughballs or dry spots. I have never had a problem with this method.
 
I almost always do the exact opposite of what Palmer suggests. I used to do it his way, but found I had more stuck mashes and sparges, and big doughballs that were tough to work out. Also, I mash in a cooler so I wanted to preheat the cooler.

The easiest way for me is to add the water to the MLT to preheat it, then let it cool to my strike temp. Then I add some grain, more strike water, more grain, etc, until it's all in there. I don't know why Palmer says to always do it the other way- unless it has to do with the possible denaturing of enzymes or something? It just doesn't work out for my system to add the grain first.
 
When I was using a cooler I did water, grain, water, grain and so on. Since moving to a direct fire mash tun I heat all my strike water in the MLT then add the grains. Haven't had any issues going this route. Even think I'm getting better saturation that I was the other way.
 
+1 to water, then grains. I mash in a cooler and I tried grains first a couple times, but had nothing but problems. Water first allows me to hit my temps easier and I seem to have no issues with dough balls.
 
Many brewers do things many different ways. Some add grain to water, some water to grain, some underlet into the tun (ostensibly still adding water to grain) and some like myself do bit by bit.

I preheat my tun with boiling water (1-2 L) , add 1/3 strike water which helps bring the tun to a good even temp, add 1/3 grain, stir gently and repeat. I can adjust temp with hot or cold water as I go (although I know my system well enough now that that's usually unnecessary). I'm not really sure that it matters that much - I have a reason for doing it the way I do and I'm sure most others do too.

My way I avoid dough balls, get the tun insulated and prevent that panicked moment of leaving the tap open and seeing grain coloured liquid flow out. I also minimise stirring. Works for me.
 
I dump all the water in, then slowly pour in the grain while stirring. No doughballs. Once I am done I am right at my mash target temp, working from BeerSmiths strike water temp. Works great.
 
Like someone else suggested on here, I heat my strike water 10 degrees above what I need and dump it in to warm the MLT. I then let it cool to the desired temp and then add grains. Works great for me and really helps me hit my mash temps.

Eric
 
I add the grain to the water. Using a paint stirrer on an elctric drill to stir the mash gets it thoroughly mixed in about 15 seconds.....No time to denature anything.
 
Gravity feed under let with water in a grain filled MLT. Cold dough-in and fire heat heat to rest temp.

As per suggestion of Dr Fix. And you can't argue with Dr Fix. Ummm, anymore.
 
Another ditto for grain into water. My brewery can run from 40F to 100F, so trying to calculate strike temperatures is a pain. With the mash tun pre-heated, no problem.
 
Thank you for your responses. I think I will start with a little bit of water, grain, water, grain... and then go from there trying to figure out what works for me.

Happy brewing,
Sergei
 
I've done it both ways. The last two brews I tried adding water the MLT first. Not sure if it has anything to do with it but, they both had an unusually high finishing gravity. I even had PLENTY of yeast. I will just go back to the palmer method.
 
I add the water first then the grain. Doing it the other way around is a huge pain in the ass. And, from my recollection, professional brewers add the water to the MT first then the grain and they don't seem to be having any problems with their beers (well, that's an overly broad statement, but you get my meaning).
 
I've done it both ways and haven't had any problems. However, I prefer to do water first b/c my mash tun thermometer is much more precise than the thermometer on my kettle and I really don't like messing around trying to achieve my mash temps. If I do water first I get a precise indication of my strike water temp.
 
I set my mash temp on my controller and go crush grain while I wait for my strike water to heat up. Then I just dump grain in and stir. My mash recirculates and keeps temp. I made a solid mash paddle and don't have any dough ball problems.
 
Put me down in the grain into water camp.

I heat the strike water about ten degrees higher than required to heat my cooler than add grain when at strike temperature.

No dough balls thus far.
 
I heat my strike water to mash temp (generally 150F) and add the grain slowly while stirring, then I use a pump to continuously circulate the wort from below the grain to the top while heating to maintain temperature,. I only mashout if the circulation rate drops off by increasing the wort by about 20 degrees 10 min before raising the grain out of it and sparging through a colander with 170F water.
 
I dump all my grain into the water at once at strike temp. I used to add it in little by little while stirring, to try to minimize doe balls. I finally came to the conclusion that it wasn't saving me any time and if anything taking longer. Now I just dump all the grain in, stir/break up doe balls and move on.
 
Shock the enzymes sounds like a Peter Gabriel song. Water, then grain, then paint stirrer on a cordless drill. Take temperature and, if it's too high, add some cold water and stir some more until its the perfect mash temp. voila! As far as I know, it still makes beer.
 
+10000 to underletting. I also mash in a bag so doughballs are pretty nonexistent. However I don't know if OP has a system with a pump, which is pretty much necessary for underletting.
 
A gravity system that can fill a mlt from an elevated hlt should work...

Cheers!
This. Here’s my ghetto quality method of underletting.
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