Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > Water Advice Please
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-25-2010, 02:38 PM   #1
pilotdane
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Roxboro, NC
Posts: 330
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default Water Advice Please

I have just received my water test results from the state. The results are for my untreaded water. I have a water softener but so far I have been brewing with un-softened water. Does anyone have any advice?

All results are mg/liter except for PH.

Total Alkalinity 197 mg/l
Floride <.2
Chloride 25
Sulfate 29
Arsenic <.005
Copper <.05
Lead <.005
Manganese <.03
Zinc .21
Barium <.1
Cadmium <.001
Chromium <.01
Silver <.05
Selenium <.005
Iron <.1
PH 7.5
Calcium 61
Magnesium 13
Total Hardness 210


pilotdane is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 03:33 PM   #2
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 22,817
Liked 1336 Times on 877 Posts
Likes Given: 35

Default

Sodium?

You've got great water for malty/balanced dark beers as is. In fact, English Browns and Porters are the ticket.

You can start getting into hoppy Amber beers like West Coast style American Ambers and ESBs with this:

Starting Water (ppm):
Ca: 61
Mg: 13
Na: 27
Cl: 25
SO4: 29
CaCO3: 197

Mash / Sparge Vol (gal): 5 / 4
Dilution Rate: 0%

Adjustments (grams) Mash / Boil Kettle:

CaSO4: 6 / 0
CaCl2: 2 / 0
MgSO4: 1 / 0

NaCl: 0 / 0
HCL Acid: 0 / 0
Lactic Acid: 0 / 0

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 162 / 117
Mg: 18 / 16
Na: 27 / 27
Cl: 76 / 53
SO4: 226 / 139
CaCO3: 197 / 197

RA (mash only): 71 (11 to 16 SRM)
Cl to SO4 (total water): 0.38 (Very Bitter)

If you want to go lighter than 11 SRM, you'll have to start looking at partial dilution with RO/distilled. You could maybe get to a copper colored IPA by pushing the gypsum in the mash to maybe 9 grams. After that you'd be adding too much calcium.


__________________
Welcome to BrewHardware.com. I love you.
New 100% Stainless Steel Heating Elements are IN! ULWD 5500w Ripple, 2000w, 1500w, etc
Chugger Pumps, Pump Kits, Camlocks, Sightglasses, Clear USA made Silicone Tubing, RIMS, Electric Install Parts, etc.

Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 03:55 PM   #3
pilotdane
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Roxboro, NC
Posts: 330
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default

I have been using 5.2 in my mash. Would I discontiue it's use if adjusting my water chemistry?

The common salt and epsom salt should be easy to find locally and I assume calcium sulfate is just gypsum. Do you think I should add individual chemicals to my mash or use a all-in-one like Burton Water Salts?
pilotdane is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 04:42 PM   #4
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 22,817
Liked 1336 Times on 877 Posts
Likes Given: 35

Default

Skip the 5.2 once you dial in via salts. I wouldn't do all in one additions because you can't tweak individual things.

You'd pick up Gypsum and Calcium Chloride at the brew shop, baking soda and epsom at the pharmacy/grocery.
__________________
Welcome to BrewHardware.com. I love you.
New 100% Stainless Steel Heating Elements are IN! ULWD 5500w Ripple, 2000w, 1500w, etc
Chugger Pumps, Pump Kits, Camlocks, Sightglasses, Clear USA made Silicone Tubing, RIMS, Electric Install Parts, etc.
Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 05:12 PM   #5
ShortSnoutBrewing
Kwanesum Chinook Illahee
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
ShortSnoutBrewing's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,266
Liked 18 Times on 16 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

To the OP..sorry for hijacking here a little....

Bobby, I've noticed you really don't like adding anything to the boil, just the mash and I've never been able to wrap my hands around why. Could you dive into that a little more. Curious why it's always a feature on these water adjustment charts, etc...but why some believe it's not needed.

Thanks.
ShortSnoutBrewing is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 06:18 PM   #6
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 22,817
Liked 1336 Times on 877 Posts
Likes Given: 35

Default

It conceptually simple. We are trying to use salts to fix mash pH and flavor profile. Some do both at the same time. If I have to use a ton of gypsum to lower my RA in the mash, I may want to leave it out of the boil (sparge volume) so that I don't overload Ca and SO4 in the final product. On the other end of the spectrum, if I use NaHCO3 to add more mash alkalinity, I see no reason to add more into the boil because all it would do is boost my sodium levels which is hardly ever a good thing.

I know it can look complicated. It can actually get worse. I've thought of situations where it would be best to hold back a certain salt and ONLY use it in the boil. What if you want to really boost SO4 in the finished beer but don't want to lower your mash RA?
__________________
Welcome to BrewHardware.com. I love you.
New 100% Stainless Steel Heating Elements are IN! ULWD 5500w Ripple, 2000w, 1500w, etc
Chugger Pumps, Pump Kits, Camlocks, Sightglasses, Clear USA made Silicone Tubing, RIMS, Electric Install Parts, etc.
Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 11:55 PM   #7
pilotdane
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Roxboro, NC
Posts: 330
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default

Can I determine bicarbonate from my water test?

I am confused because even Palmer's webpage about how to read a water test. His sample test does not include bicarbonate but he talkes about it just like any other element of the test.
pilotdane is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 01:08 AM   #8
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 22,817
Liked 1336 Times on 877 Posts
Likes Given: 35

Default

Bicarbonate is HCO3 but you can also use your Total Alkalinity as (CaCO3) (197 on your report)
__________________
Welcome to BrewHardware.com. I love you.
New 100% Stainless Steel Heating Elements are IN! ULWD 5500w Ripple, 2000w, 1500w, etc
Chugger Pumps, Pump Kits, Camlocks, Sightglasses, Clear USA made Silicone Tubing, RIMS, Electric Install Parts, etc.
Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 12:24 PM   #9
pilotdane
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Roxboro, NC
Posts: 330
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default

Thank you for your help and advice.
pilotdane is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 05:41 PM   #10
sjlammer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 576
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

[QUOTE=Bobby_M;1835860]It conceptually simple. We are trying to use salts to fix mash pH and flavor profile. Some do both at the same time. If I have to use a ton of gypsum to lower my RA in the mash, I may want to leave it out of the boil (sparge volume) so that I don't overload Ca and SO4 in the final product. On the other end of the spectrum, if I use NaHCO3 to add more mash alkalinity, I see no reason to add more into the boil because all it would do is boost my sodium levels which is hardly ever a good thing.[QUOTE]

Excluding the mash, does hardness change the flavor of the beer?

If you skip the baking soda addition in the BK, how does that change the flavor of the finished product.

OP... stay away from brewing with softened water. keep using the unsoftened.


__________________
~"A fine beer may be judged with only one sip, but it's better to be thoroughly sure.

On Deck: Spruce APA, Chambord Fortified Chocolate Porter, Imperial IPA

Primary:
Primary:
Secondary: Belgian Dark Strong Ale
Conical:
Lagering: None
Kegged/Drinking: Cascade, Cent., Amarillo Pale Ale
Kegged/Drinking: Belgian Pale Ale (HG yeast for yeast cropping see above)
Bottled: ESB
sjlammer is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brewing Water Advice Schlenkerla General Techniques 74 09-09-2009 10:27 PM
Used distilled water, need advice markhagan Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 12 04-26-2009 10:37 PM
Need advice on mini-mash - how much water to use? DeafSmith Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 9 02-14-2009 06:26 PM
Advice on water treatment please BOBTHEukBREWER All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 5 01-15-2009 09:21 PM
Advice on water quality? FlyGuy All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 16 02-10-2007 12:25 AM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS