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Old 01-05-2010, 04:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arturo7 View Post
We have enough brain power here on HBT to pull this off. I would be more than happy to devote some time to it. It would be ideal if someone with a chemistry background could supervise the project.

Here is a couple ideas:

Identify which styles to cover. Decide on the ideal water profile for each style. Decide on baseline R/O profile. Layout a spreadsheet with "styles" in the rows and "additives" in the columns. From there it's just doing the legwork to fill in the chart.

Maybe those who want to help on the project are given 3 styles to profile. Multiple people working on the same style would help reduce errors.


Just thinking out loud...
This is a great idea. I wish I could help but I've only dipped my pinky toe in the pool of water chemistry. It would definately help out tons of people, i'm sure.
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:03 AM   #12
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You may want to group styles by their color as the roast of the malt affects pH which affects the mash conversion. You also have the sulphur/bitterness link, but that is another issue, although less important than pH.

There are several water chemistry tools available that will build your water from any starting point (including RO) to any particular profile you want. I have one posted in the forum (link) and I know there are several others as well in the software forum. You can also find the water profiles for famous brewing cities throughout the world in several places on the web. Targeting the water of a specific city and knowing what style beer that city is famous for is a good place to start in creating brew water for a specific style.
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arturo7 View Post
We have enough brain power here on HBT to pull this off. I would be more than happy to devote some time to it. It would be ideal if someone with a chemistry background could supervise the project.

Here is a couple ideas:

Identify which styles to cover. Decide on the ideal water profile for each style. Decide on baseline R/O profile. Layout a spreadsheet with "styles" in the rows and "additives" in the columns. From there it's just doing the legwork to fill in the chart.

Maybe those who want to help on the project are given 3 styles to profile. Multiple people working on the same style would help reduce errors.


Just thinking out loud...
I would be more than willing to help out with some water profiles. Just let me know via PM or whatever if you figure out a tentative plan.

 
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:46 AM   #14
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What a lot of us I think would like is a basic chart with additions to brew different styles based on R/O water building. the tools I have looked at seem good for getting the additions needed to make a profile that is known to the builder, a lot of us dont know much more than the style, let alone the base profile to build up to. if I wanted to build water for an APA using a water tool, I feel like I would need to find the water profile for a brewery like say Sierra Nevadas water, then try to build from there entering all the minerals ect. if a chart was compiled it would be like a "waterbuilding for dummies" book. it doesnt need to be super detailed, just a jumping off point for those of us who are just getting into water science, to get us started in the right direction, then we can tweak using a water tool once confident enough to do so.
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Old 01-05-2010, 06:51 AM   #15
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This is a great idea. Water chemisty is aggregating to me. I now use brewing salt additions to my beer, but they are not precise. the salt additions on this potential chart will have to be in scale with a batch size. Like for a 5.5 gal or a 11 gal batch. I would be in for picking up a couple styles to research. Thing is how to we organize something like this? arturo7 maybe ill pm you and we can talk about this. Would anyone else want to contribute?

 
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Old 01-05-2010, 07:09 AM   #16
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How about a chart that lists additions per gallon? Each user can scale it appropriately.
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:10 PM   #17
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Ya that would work. make the additions for only one gallon. We have 5 water salts we should include: Calcium Sulfate, Calcium Chloride, Sodium Chloride, Magnesium Sulfate, Calcium Carbonate. If we list these on the top of a graph horizontally and then list beer styles vertically on the left we can create our graph. But I would prefer if we didn't just list the mineral concentrations needed for that style, but go the extra mile and figure out per gram, how much of each water salt is needed to acheve the closest mineral concentrations for that style.
We are going to have to assume an average city water profile, and a R/O system that will filter out...I think most R/O systems filter out about 90-95% of everything.

 
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:49 PM   #18
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I think we can assume that all R/O water is the same, regardless of the input source. Anyone want to confirm or refute that?
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmeister View Post
We have 5 water salts we should include: Calcium Sulfate, Calcium Chloride, Sodium Chloride, Magnesium Sulfate, Calcium Carbonate.
Going by Beersmith, there are 6 salts to be considered. Those listed above plus sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3), aka baking soda.

Again, anyone want to confirm or refute that?

Are there other salts/minerals that should be considered?
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:36 PM   #20
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Just found this. It is close to what we're talking about. Unfortunately, it is based on distilled, not R/O water.

http://lyra.cs.virginia.edu:8080/~asb/beer/water.html
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