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Old 12-19-2009, 01:40 PM   #1
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Default Taste difference between Nottingham and Safale 05

Hi

If one brews an eight gallon batch of beer and splits it in half, then pitches Nottingham to one carboy and Safale 05 to the other, what kind of taste results could one expect?

(Fermentation conditions are the same.)


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Old 12-19-2009, 02:37 PM   #2
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Notty should throw more esters than S-05, depending of course on the temperature at which the ferment will be conducted. Notty, when fermented cool, throws relatively few esters. So if you ferment them both at 75F, you should expect more esters from the Notty than if you fermented them both at 65F. Fermented cool, I expect you'll have two very similar beers.

Bob


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Old 12-19-2009, 03:08 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob View Post
Notty should throw more esters than S-05, depending of course on the temperature at which the ferment will be conducted. Notty, when fermented cool, throws relatively few esters. So if you ferment them both at 75F, you should expect more esters from the Notty than if you fermented them both at 65F. Fermented cool, I expect you'll have two very similar beers.

Bob
So if I fermented one of the batches at 75F and the other at 65F I would expect to have more off flavors in the 75F than the 65F although there may be a hint of esters in the 65F. Make sense?
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Old 12-19-2009, 03:25 PM   #4
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It's not necessarily a given that 75F will give "off flavors". "Estery" doesn't equate with "off flavors".

S-05, being a derivative of clean (meaning not estery) American ale yeast, is often seen as leaving little in the way of yeast character. Nottingham, being a derivative of often estery (fruity) English ale strains, is more likely to have an estery character.

Experience has shown, however, than when fermented at the lower end of its temperature range Nottingham ferments with little in the way of fruity esters. Indeed, it is touted as "neutral" - Danstar tells us Nottingham "produces low concentrations of fruity and estery aromas and has been described as neutral for ale yeast, allowing the full natural flavor of malt & hops to develop."*

S-05 "produces well balanced beers with low diacetyl and a very clean, crisp end palate."**

75F is outside the upper end of Nottingham's optimum range. 75F is listed as the extreme upper end of S-05's range. No matter which strain is chosen, at this temperature excessive ester generation is pretty much guaranteed.

I suggest you choose a mid-range temperature, like between 65 and 68F. That should permit a decent side-by-side comparison. Don't forget to taste blind.

Bob

* http://www.danstaryeast.com/nottingham.html
** http://www.fermentis.com/FO/pdf/HB/E...e_US-05_HB.pdf
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Old 12-19-2009, 03:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gammon N Beer View Post
Hi

If one brews an eight gallon batch of beer and splits it in half, then pitches Nottingham to one carboy and Safale 05 to the other, what kind of taste results could one expect?

(Fermentation conditions are the same.)

I have done a bunch of side-by-side yeast experiments and the only thing that separates the two strains, that I can distinguish, is that Nottingham will dry the beer out a little more. I use Nottingham a lot and I like its ability to consistently attenuate well, because it allows me to adjust the sweetness/mouth-feel of my beers by adjusting the recipe, without changing the yeast.
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Old 12-19-2009, 03:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob View Post
It's not necessarily a given that 75F will give "off flavors". "Estery" doesn't equate with "off flavors".

S-05, being a derivative of clean (meaning not estery) American ale yeast, is often seen as leaving little in the way of yeast character. Nottingham, being a derivative of often estery (fruity) English ale strains, is more likely to have an estery character.

Experience has shown, however, than when fermented at the lower end of its temperature range Nottingham ferments with little in the way of fruity esters. Indeed, it is touted as "neutral" - Danstar tells us Nottingham "produces low concentrations of fruity and estery aromas and has been described as neutral for ale yeast, allowing the full natural flavor of malt & hops to develop."*

S-05 "produces well balanced beers with low diacetyl and a very clean, crisp end palate."**

75F is outside the upper end of Nottingham's optimum range. 75F is listed as the extreme upper end of S-05's range. No matter which strain is chosen, at this temperature excessive ester generation is pretty much guaranteed.

I suggest you choose a mid-range temperature, like between 65 and 68F. That should permit a decent side-by-side comparison. Don't forget to taste blind.

Bob

* http://www.danstaryeast.com/nottingham.html
** http://www.fermentis.com/FO/pdf/HB/E...e_US-05_HB.pdf
I really appreciate you taking the time. I am beginning to look more closely at the yeast I am using. I fermented my samples in the 66-68F range. I used 75F in my question just to indicate a broad difference in temperatures.

I also used the term, "off flavors" due to this wiki article: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Esters

I am though finding that I have experienced esters in a number of brews. Going back to the records, I find they were beers where I used Nottingham.

I think I prefer the 05 over Nottingham, at least until I get a good handle on the yeast attributes. I do find I brew the beers I like that can sub between the two. I think I will brew a series using 05, then pop in a Nottingham in a split batch again and keep better records.
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Old 12-19-2009, 03:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calpyro View Post
I have done a bunch of side-by-side yeast experiments and the only thing that separates the two strains, that I can distinguish, is that Nottingham will dry the beer out a little more. I use Nottingham a lot and I like its ability to consistently attenuate well, because it allows me to adjust the sweetness/mouth-feel of my beers by adjusting the recipe, without changing the yeast.
calpyro
Do you get the esters that Bob refers to, Or, do you control the temps to the Danstar standard?
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Old 12-19-2009, 05:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob View Post
I suggest you choose a mid-range temperature, like between 65 and 68F. That should permit a decent side-by-side comparison. Don't forget to taste UNTIL YOU'RE blind.
Fixed that for you.
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Old 12-19-2009, 06:32 PM   #9
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I find Nottingham to have a disagreeable (to me) tartness and fruitiness. 05 can be fruity, but is generally pretty clean and doesn't have that tart flavor.
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:56 PM   #10
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I would have to agree with Denny. The handfull of beers I have breweed with Nottingham, have had an "off" flavor that I am not a fan of. I have made the same recipies with US-05 and wlp001 and have enjoyed those much more. YMMV


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