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Old 12-10-2009, 05:07 PM   #21
Scotty_g
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooter View Post
So, the phenol reaction could happen in the mash? I was hoping it was only a reaction that occured during fermentation.

Sigh, it would have been much easier to add it later! So much to learn as I move on to mashing.

Thanks!
I am not an expert on the subject (we use bottled water for brewing to avoid the chlorine issue; the city switched off well water to lake water a few years ago and that requires considerably more disinfectant), but I think the chlorine issue would primarily be during fermentation. I don't think you can get chlorophenols until the yeast make some regular phenols first. There would be some phenolic-like compounds in the grist (like lignin) but I don't know if they dissolve. The paper industry used to use chlorine to bleach lignin from pulp, but that was at much higher concentrations of chlorine.

I suspect the boil would remove chlorine just fine from the water; the potential source of chlorine in the fermentation would be any top-off water. I'd worry most about that.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty_g View Post
I suspect the boil would remove chlorine just fine from the water; the potential source of chlorine in the fermentation would be any top-off water. I'd worry most about that.
Yes, it's my understanding that you add the Campden primarily to take care of the chloramine which allows it to be driven off with the chlorine, or as chlorine, in the boil. I was hoping that I could add the Campden while the final boil volume was coming up to temperature. Right now I measure out a bunch of water in advance, treat it and I then have to redistribute it between my different vessels. It would just make it a little easier if the treatment didn't have to happen until it all got into the boil kettle. You make a good point though about top off water.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:53 PM   #23
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Related to the subject, isn't Campden potassium metabisulfite, and what is the quantity equivalent of a 'tablet"?
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:33 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty_g View Post
I am not an expert on the subject (we use bottled water for brewing to avoid the chlorine issue; the city switched off well water to lake water a few years ago and that requires considerably more disinfectant), but I think the chlorine issue would primarily be during fermentation. I don't think you can get chlorophenols until the yeast make some regular phenols first. There would be some phenolic-like compounds in the grist (like lignin) but I don't know if they dissolve. The paper industry used to use chlorine to bleach lignin from pulp, but that was at much higher concentrations of chlorine.

I suspect the boil would remove chlorine just fine from the water; the potential source of chlorine in the fermentation would be any top-off water. I'd worry most about that.
Malt, particularly the husks, contains phenols as do hops and most other plants for that matter.

 
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remilard View Post
Malt, particularly the husks, contains phenols as do hops and most other plants for that matter.
Quite true. However, I was mostly thinking (perhaps incorrectly) about the phenol character that certain yeast provide while other yeast do not. If you can get the band-aid taste when using chlorinated water and a cleaner yeast, then it would be the malt husks (etc.) providing the phenols for the undesirable flavor. In that case, you would need to keep all chlorinated water out of the brewing process (mashing, boiling, top-off).
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:59 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty_g View Post
Quite true. However, I was mostly thinking (perhaps incorrectly) about the phenol character that certain yeast provide while other yeast do not. If you can get the band-aid taste when using chlorinated water and a cleaner yeast, then it would be the malt husks (etc.) providing the phenols for the undesirable flavor. In that case, you would need to keep all chlorinated water out of the brewing process (mashing, boiling, top-off).
Nope, chlorophenols can defiantly happen in the mash. Especially with chlorine, they react with the husks as said. Fermentation is also a problem.

 
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:21 AM   #27
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Ok, so I know some of this was touched on, but I'm still a bit fuzzy on some of this.

I use an activated carbon filter to help remove chlorine and chloramine. My chemistry is a bit lacking but does the activated carbon remove other ions like Chloride, Sodium, or anything else?

Also a comment earlier stated that the filtration had to be slow. Would a standard in-line GE filtration unit with activated carbon filter not remove the advertised 99.5% (or whatever) of chlorine? Also, is this rate of removal of chloramine similar to that of chlorine?

Thanks for breaking this down for me.

 
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Old 01-04-2010, 06:22 PM   #28
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is there a waiting period between using a campden tablet and pitching yeast?

 
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Old 01-05-2010, 06:36 AM   #29
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slightly
so, if i'm using a whole house filter what kind of filter should i be looking for? Are carbon block filters the same thing as activated charcoal?
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Old 01-05-2010, 01:19 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalobrewer View Post
is there a waiting period between using a campden tablet and pitching yeast?
I treat all the water I'm brewing and sanitizing with first thing. I believe I read that the reaction doesn't take very long but I would treat your water at the beginning of the brew day.

FWIW my batches of beer have been noticeably better since I started using campden tabs. I highly recommend them or the charcoal filtration as earlier stated. If you do nothing else to your water when brewing you'll want to do this.

Apparently campden tabs can also be used for the neutralization and decontamination after exposure to tear gas. So if you plan on rioting make sure to bring some campden!

 
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