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Old 12-03-2009, 07:54 PM   #1
ekjohns
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so I purchased everything needed to make a dunkle from midwestsupplies.com and for one with leaving for thanksgiving my yeast sat out for a whole week not on ice. Is it possible to still use this or is it done for? (is it worth trying a starter to get it to work or is the yeast to stressed?) Second, they didnt crush my grains even after asking them. I dont want to take the grain to a local shop to mill as it is kind of a slap to the face for them since they are priced higher and i went with someone else. Is there a good way to crush the grains at home? midwestsupplies said to put them in a zip lock bag and use a beer bottle or roller to crush them....seems like alot of work for 12 lbs of grain and could get some really bad yeilds...thoughts?

 
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Old 12-03-2009, 07:59 PM   #2
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Where are you in Ohio?

The yeast might still be viable. It's worth trying a starter anyhow.

You can crush the grains like MW described. It's better to have them milled. Maybe someone near you with a mill could help a brotha out?
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:07 PM   #3
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yeah i am on campus well grandview which is right of OSU campus

 
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:13 PM   #4
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Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.

You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.

Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.

Additionally it is better for the yeast to consume and reproduce incrementally rather than just dumping them into the fermenter...The yeast will be less stressed out than if you just dump them in.

Stressed out yeast can lead to a lot of off flavors...maybe even (though rare) the dreaded autolysis....Or the curse of 1.030....getting a stuck fermentation because the yeast have bit the dust.

So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.

As to the crushing issue, for a large amount of grain doing it that way IS a pita, but the only easy alternative is to buy a grain mill. You can get a corona and tweak it. But if you are not wanting to make such an investment so soon, then perhaps seeing if any brewers in your area have a mill.
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:16 PM   #5
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On the grain crush: It will be a LOT of work and you likely will have terribad efficiency. I would advise against doing it that way, just my opinion.

Agree on the yeast. Try making a starter but I would make it a smallish one and step it up. The viability is prob very low.
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:18 PM   #6
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I really need to get into making starters.
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:19 PM   #7
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Throw the yeast in a starter, don't have anything to lose. As far as the grain goes, if you requested to have it crushed then they should make good on it. Not sure what you meant by "asked". I insist on communicating via email and ordering online, there's a record. Still, not a major loss to them just to resend the grains. It's a simple resolution to satisfy a rational customer.

 
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:21 PM   #8
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Certainly there has to be something else you need at the local home brew store. The stores in our area, both awesome, have no issues with you bringing in bulk purchased grain and running it through on their crusher. In my experience most shops are pretty cool about it if you frequent the store for other needs. But, I'd leave it to your discretion whether your particular LHBS would be chill with you running the grains through their crusher.

My experience with Midwest has been positive. Did you advise them of the grain situation, say you don't want to crush it yourself, and ask them to send you new grain crushed like you originally asked? They may do that for you, which would give you time to build your starter up before brew day. Also, you say brewing a dunkel - are we talking munich dunkel (a lager) or a dunkelweizen (ale). If it's the lager you definitely want to go the starter route as IMHO one vial of yeast is never sufficient for lager pitching. You can get away with it on some lower gravity ales, but I wouldn't anger the yeast gods with underpitching a lager.


 
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:39 PM   #9
ekjohns
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dunkleweizen, I plan on doing a starter no matter what and yes i requested the grains to be crushed and have the reciept to prove it. I aske them more hoping for them to say "our bad we will send some more" I guess I can email back and say its not very feisable to crush 12 lbs of grain and ask if they can resend just the grains.

 
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:12 PM   #10
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If I stated on my order for the grains to be crushed and they didn’t well they would owe me replacement grains IMO. I would not go out and but a mill just for someone else’s mess up. I am sure if you ask they will send replacement grains if not dispute the charge. But if you really don’t want to wait then just go to your local HBS and say someone bought you a kit for you birthday or some crap and thy didn’t know you had to crush the grains. I really don’t think that your local shop would mind and if they did its not a shop I would want to do business with anyway.

As for the yeast I agree with everyone else I had a yeast pack that I forgot in a bag for a few days and just doubled my usually starter size and time and then decanted it with no fermentation issue that I could notice.
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