New to all grain - questions - Home Brew Forums
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > New to all grain - questions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-02-2009, 02:19 AM   #1
UnderDogs
Recipes 
 
Nov 2009
Michigan
Posts: 59
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts



I'm new to all grain...basically new to homebrewing but I'm jumping straight into all grain. I have all the equipment I just need to know the finally "detail" on amounts of water to use.

If someone can help out on this. Basically if you are making, say a 7.5 gallon batch, do you trying splitting that in half for each run off? So your first run off will equal 3.75 gallons and your second run off will equal 3.75 gallons?

Here is what I was thinking so correct me if I'm wrong.
7.5 Gal batch
11 lbs of grain
1.25 qt/lbs ratio
0.1 mash absorbtion qt/lbs ratio

Ok here is the math I have.
11 lbs x 1.25 qt/lbs = 13.75 qt
13.75 qt / 4 = 3.4375 gal

11 x .1 = 1.1 gal of mash absorbtion
3.4375 - 1.1 = 2.3375 gallons left

7.5 gal batch size / 2 = 3.75 gal per run off
3.75 - 2.3375 = 1.4125

Add 1.4125 for infusion to bring the 1st run off to 3.75 gallons.
Then add 3.75 gallons to the mash tun for the 2nd run off.

Is this correct or is there something I'm doing wrong?



 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 02:24 AM   #2
Rick500
Recipes 
 
Jun 2008
KY
Posts: 2,612
Liked 15 Times on 13 Posts


Check out Bobby's very helpful PDF here: http://www.suebob.com/brew/Bobby_M%2...n%20primer.pdf



 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 03:15 AM   #3
Palefire
Recipes 
 
Jun 2009
SF, CA
Posts: 1,124
Liked 12 Times on 9 Posts


Yes, you're right. There are lots of ways to allocate sparge water (Bobby M. advocates no-mash-out-double-batch-sparge, which is different from the method you're using), but if you're doing the Denny Conn method, then you're absolutely right on.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 03:21 AM   #4
wilserbrewer
BIAB Expert Tailor
HBT_SPONSOR.png
 
wilserbrewer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
May 2007
Jersey Shore, Jersey
Posts: 9,365
Liked 1301 Times on 997 Posts


Either way you choose to skin the cat...the thing that matters most to me is that on my last sparge, I will just check the kettle and estimate how much more I need to reach my preboil volume, and that amount will be my last sparge.

Simply put...sparge to fill the kettle to the proper volume...all these calculations...oh my head starts to hurt!

I also do the Bobby M...no mash out double batch sparge...basicly you just drain the initial mash, and then split the sparge in two...easy peasy.


 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 03:29 AM   #5
UnderDogs
Recipes 
 
Nov 2009
Michigan
Posts: 59
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts


So it wouldn't matter if you were doing a 8 gallon boil and you did a first run of 6 gallons and a second run of 2 gallons, or the other way around?

It doesn't case the wort to be more "lighter" or "heavier"? Again I'm new at this...

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 04:22 AM   #6
JuanMoore
Recipes 
 
Oct 2009
The Old Pueblo
Posts: 21,617
Liked 3655 Times on 3479 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderDogs View Post
So it wouldn't matter if you were doing a 8 gallon boil and you did a first run of 6 gallons and a second run of 2 gallons, or the other way around?

It doesn't case the wort to be more "lighter" or "heavier"? Again I'm new at this...
Not quite. You want the mash (initial addition of water) to be at a set ratio, typically around 1.25 to 1.5 quarts per pound of grain. You then want the sparge volume to be enough to reach the desired pre-boil volume. It's the volume of sparge water that can be split any way you want.

The thickness of the mash (water to grain ratio) does have an effect on the body of the beer, in a similar way that temperature does. A thicker mash, and/or higher mash temperatures result in more unfermentable sugars, and a fuller body. Thinner mash and/or lower temperatures produce highly fermentable sugars, and a thinner body.


 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 04:33 AM   #7
jds
 
jds's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2007
Littleton, CO
Posts: 1,913
Liked 23 Times on 18 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by JuanMoore View Post
Not quite. You want the mash (initial addition of water) to be at a set ratio, typically around 1.25 to 1.5 quarts per pound of grain. You then want to sparge volume to be enough to reach the desired pre-boil volume. It's the volume of sparge water that can be split any way you want.

The thickness of the mash (water to grain ratio) does have an effect on the body of the beer, in a similar way that temperature does. A thicker mash, and/or higher mash temperatures result in more unfermentable sugars, and a fuller body. Thinner mash and/or lower temperatures produce highly fermentable sugars, and a thinner body.
OP, the idea is to end up with the correct amount of pre-boil wort at the right gravity to hit your recipe targets for volume and gravity into the fermenter. I usually dough in with 1.5 quarts / lb or so, but I've gona as high as 3 qts/lb with no problems, although at 3 qts/lb, it's essentially a no-sparge brew.

On a typical brewday, to get the sparge volumes, I look at the volume of my first runnings, subtract from my usual 7 gallon preboil volume, split the difference in half, and then sparge twice with whatever amount of water I need.

As for mash thickness and effects on fermentability, I'm not so sure that applies at homebrewing scales. For reference, check out Kaiser's research at http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php...fusion_mashing

Reproduced below is a chart of Kaiser's results of attenuation limits as a function of mash thickness in a fast ferment test. The results from thick and thin mashes are practically superimposed.


 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 04:47 AM   #8
JuanMoore
Recipes 
 
Oct 2009
The Old Pueblo
Posts: 21,617
Liked 3655 Times on 3479 Posts


Just to clarify, your math looks good, and should work fine. What I'm trying to say is that you can split your mash-out/sparge water in any way you want to. You could do the 1.4 gal mash-out and then 3.75 gal sparge like you described, or skip the mash-out and sparge 5.15 gal, or skip the mash-out and do two 2.57 gal sparges, or do a 2.57 gal mash-out and a 2.57 gal sparge. The main thing is to find a system that works for you, and then stick with it so that you can repeat (and therefore predict) your efficiency.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 05:17 AM   #9
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2006
Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 23,146
Liked 1622 Times on 1050 Posts


What's you initially proposed is absolutely fine.


__________________
Welcome to BrewHardware.com. I love you.
BIAB Large Mesh False Bottoms and SS HERMS COILS are IN!!
Chugger Pumps, Pump Kits, Camlocks, Sightglasses, Clear USA made Silicone Tubing, RIMS, Electric Install Parts, etc.

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
First all grain...have many questions... Shoemaker All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 11 10-17-2009 10:14 PM
First All Grain Questions zeppman301 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 5 10-01-2009 04:19 PM
All-grain 2 gallon batch with grain bag: Questions TrojanAnteater All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 1 01-26-2009 01:55 PM
Questions about All Grain. Mr Nick Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 18 11-05-2007 02:18 PM
First All Grain, Questions Beerrific All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 17 05-22-2007 01:23 AM


Forum Jump