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Old 01-22-2011, 09:43 PM   #11
This ain't my first rodeo....
sudbuster's Avatar
Jul 2007
Western Arkansas
Posts: 4,030
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Originally Posted by BrotherMalcolm View Post
I stopped reading when I saw the C's, P's and kg's.... Why not make the boil times metric too! Whats a 90 minute boil in metric? like 37.476 minutes?
Well, I'm so sorry you became discouraged BrotherM. It's just that I am a retired physics teacher and much prefer units that 98% of the world is using over the archaic system we (US) cling to so desperatly.

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Old 01-23-2011, 03:18 PM   #12
Jan 2009
Pittsurgh, pa
Posts: 14
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Originally Posted by sudbuster View Post
Well, I'm so sorry you became discouraged BrotherM. It's just that I am a retired physics teacher and much prefer units that 98% of the world is using over the archaic system we (US) cling to so desperatly.
Yeah, I actually prefer units of 10 (100, 1000, etc). I like to tease people about metric b/c most people who prefer the "English System" do so out of, not just familiarity, but pride as well.

In the brewing world I've been making attempts to get a feel for a kg, a ml, a degree C, and Plato, but since I actually learned to brew with the other units I find I can visualize them much better.

I feel its akin to people who learn one language, as a base, and then branch off onto others. It has been observed, albeit anecdotally, that when such a person is angry, argues, and even dreams etc, the often revert to the base language.

I think in OG vs FG - then translate to P or brix.

Same does for C -> F. C = (F -32) * 5/9?!!! hahahahaha.

In the nuclear world we are all over the place. BTU, Kjoule, Watts, In/hg etc.

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Old 03-22-2011, 04:25 AM   #13
Mar 2011
rockville, indiana
Posts: 224
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what's the grain bill for this?

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Old 03-30-2011, 05:27 PM   #14
CidahMastah's Avatar
Nov 2010
, New York
Posts: 4,242
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Originally Posted by donjr721 View Post
what's the grain bill for this?
Do you need a secret decoder ring to understand what is going on in this recipe? I stopped drinking ovaltine years ago so I guess I lose out.

You talk about the simplicity of metric, how about the simplicity of a recipe with a clearly defined grain bill using the format provided by the forum?

Don't mean to be harsh here, but isn't the point of standardizing a recipe format on this forum so people can get used to seeing it one clear way.

I would love to try this recipe, but I will just pull out my copy of BYO instead and grab this recipe.
Man,... That's a lotta hooch!
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Old 04-06-2011, 03:04 AM   #15
Sep 2008
Posts: 24

Despite the confused and hurtful comments, I decided to give this a try a week ago. I had previously not done a decoction mash and had a friend request i brew a pilsner so decided this was a good one to go with. Have a few notes to share.

First, for those confused by metric you want about 8.75 lbs grain and 3 oz hops for a 5 gallon batch. You'll likely have to do that conversion anyway if your LHBS only prices by the pound for grain and ounce for hops (like mine).

Now for my notes:
1) Thanks for the detail on the decoction mash, I'd just add that for the 1st pull you didn't include a ratio for the amount that should be pulled. I aimed for 25% but that seems like it was too low as my resulting temp was low after returning it to the mash. I had to add some additional boiling water to hit the target temp for the rest period.

2) On the low pitching temp... I pitched around 5C as recommended, but ended up not getting any activity. This may be b/c I was lazy and didn't use a starter. I used the Wyeast slap-pack, so I know the yeast was active from the inflation of the package, but had no activity in the wort after 5 days. So I repitched some dry lager yeast (I'm still lazy and avoided doing a starter). I checked the Wyeast website which provides a temp range with 10C for the lower bound for 2268. I repitched with saflager s-23 and raised my temp closer to 10C and it started fermenting after the usual lag time (~30 hours, which is a little longer than my avg lag time but I attribute it to some of the oxygen leaving the wort during the initial 5 days).
I know others remarked on the low pitching temp, wanted to see if others had experience with not using starters at these temps, or if it becomes mandatory when pitching that cold.

3) I'm tempted to repeat this in about a week... After I rack this batch from the primary I aim to make a 2nd 5 gallon batch and transfer that directly onto the trub. I knew some commercial brewers who do similar to this (reusing the yeast several times), wanted to see if any homebrewers have attempted that with this pils recipe (or other lagers).

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Old 04-11-2011, 02:33 PM   #16
Feb 2009
Posts: 1,786
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I think you will make a better beer with liquid yeast than s-23. The only place I would pitch that yeast is in the trash can. This is a very delicate beer and you really should use the proper yeast and make a starter. I personally wouldn't use an S-23 cake for anything, that is a nasty yeast. If you really want to use dry yeast, I would recommend W-34/70.

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Old 05-08-2011, 05:28 AM   #17
Apr 2009
Auckland, NZ
Posts: 22

If anyone is interest in seeing one do an triple decoction then see

A very good video about the decoction method.

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Old 05-17-2011, 03:36 AM   #18
Sep 2008
Posts: 24

For anyone watching / waiting for the results, this came out GREAT! Even with the alternate yeast addition and slow start, it fermented steadily at the cold temps, slowly rise to a higher temp as recommended, then transferred, layered and bottled. I tasted the first test bottle yesterday (after 8 days in bottle) and it was already great. Saving most of the rest for memorial day weekend at the lake . Took a sample by the local brew club and the overall consensus was that it is "damn drinkable".
The only notes for improvement were to up the hops, and I think for those that prefer more hop flavor another 0.5 to 1 oz hops towards the end of boil would not put it out of style, but I would hesitate as the current beer is pretty spot on as a bohemian pilsner.

Thanks for posting, I have a second batch still fermenting with the saved yeast, I toyed with that a little, changing to only a double decoction and also letting the pulls boil a bit longer to get some more color / caramel (but not much). Will also update on how that goes, but it's just now nearing the end of primary so it will be another 50 or so days before I sample.

Thanks again sudbuster.
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Old 02-22-2012, 03:04 PM   #19
Jul 2011
Radford, VA
Posts: 49
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Here what i think i'm going to try this weekend. I altered the recipe for my RIMS system, based on the recipe above, the comments and my system. I'll post my results when done.

If you think i'm screwing up, post comments soon please!

Pilsner Urquell Knockoff
Shopping list-- 9 lbs Moravian or Bohemian malt or and 4 oz Saaz hops - 1# 20L crystal

Mash in, at 90 degrees F. using 1.85 L water per 1kg malt for about 10 min.

Slowly Increase temp of RIMS system to 128 degrees F. over a 15 min period then rest 10 minutes ,

Slowly Increase temp of RIMS system from 128 degrees to 149 degrees F over 20 min ) and hold for 60 minutes

Bring RIMS to 168 degrees for about 5 min.

Lauter/sparge for 60 min.

Boil wort 90 min. Use fresh Saaz hops in three portions, 1.5 oz at start of boil, 1 oz at 55min left, .5 oz at 15 min and 1 oz at flameout.

Pitching. Cool to 40 Degrees F. and pitch WY2278 or WLP800 2 liter starter Bring the temp up to 48 degrees F> over a period of about 12 days.

Lager for 40 days at 33 degrees F.

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Old 03-29-2012, 09:38 AM   #20
Feb 2012
Prague, Czech Republic
Posts: 196
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Originally Posted by sudbuster View Post
Pilsner Urquell Knockoff
Traditional three decoction

Very soft (hardness <30, Ca <8, SO4 <6, TDS < 35) brewing water

Not specific for volume, multiply for your volume.
ex; 5gal batch uses 4Kg malt

Mash in, thoroughly kneading Moravian malt (if you can't find Moravian then use Bohemian) using 1.85 L water per 1kg malt at 32.2 C about 10 min.

Pull the first decotion. Slowly increase decoction temp to rest at 65 C for 10min, then ramp slowly (5 to 10 min) to boiling. boil 5 min covered. Return the decoction to the mash tun gradually ( ~5 min ) stirring well to bring the mash temp to 52.8 C. Any remaining decoction may be force cooled to the mash temp and returned to the mash. Mash Ph ~5.2. Rest about 5 min, then..

Pull the second decoction. Repeat the process above with ~ 40% of the heavy mash. Return the decoction slowly ( about 20 min ) to the mash tun, again stirring to maintain even temp increase to 65 C. Maintain temp with boiling water infusions which helps thin the mash. Rest for 60 min, then..

Pull the third decoction. This time, drain off about half of the thin mash and boil for about 5 min. Stirring plays a big part in this. Return the decoction to the mash and stir for 5 min at a mash temp of 75.6 C.

Lauter/sparge for 60 min.

Boil wort 90 min. Use fresh Saaz hops(~4 AA) at a rate of 350g/hL(~ 78g/6.4gal of wort) in three portions, 45% at start of boil, 30% at 55min left, 25% at 15 min left befor flameout.

Pitching. Cool to 3.9 C and pitch WY2278 or equivalent at a rate of 15 million cells per mL.( Ex./ One activator pack added to 1 liter of wort, then,after ferment,add 1 more liter of wort and ferment. This should yield ~ 15 millon cells/ ml when pitched into 9 gal of wort) Bring the temp up to 8.9 C over a period of about 12 days.

Lager this beer for 40 days at 0.6 C
This has to be one of the better stabs at Urquell that I have seen. Most other attempts are WAY too strong.

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