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Old 11-28-2009, 03:50 PM   #1
CharlosCarlies
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My whole family loves this style, so I thought I'd put something together that I can call my own.

Thoughts on using .5 # of Cara-Pils? How much is too much Melanoidin? What about the hops?

--------------------------
Batch Size: 11.00 gal
Boil Size: 14.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.042 SG
Estimated Color: 4.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 16.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item % or IBU
14.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) 84.85 %
2.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) 12.12 %
0.50 lb Melanoidin Malt (20.0 SRM) 3.03 %

1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (60 min) 16.2 IBU

1 Pkgs German Lager (White Labs #WLP830)

Considering single infusion @ around 150-151F.

 
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:53 PM   #2
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I would do away with the melanoiden malt and attempt the Dreimaischverfahren.

 
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Old 11-28-2009, 04:02 PM   #3
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Quote:
Dreimaischverfahren
I'm guessing this means a decoction?

I've been meaning to try one, so maybe I'll just do a single rest @ 150F and pull a single decoction to mash out. Would that make much of a difference you think?

 
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Old 11-28-2009, 04:19 PM   #4
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Yeah it's a traditional triple decoction. I have never made a Helles but I have been researching the style pretty heavily in preperation to make one and it appears to be the only pale German style to always use a triple decoction. I have never gotten much flavor out of singles, but you could give it a shot.

 
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Old 11-28-2009, 04:23 PM   #5
TexLaw
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Go for the whole enchilada, man. Do a double decoction with a beta rest, alpha rest, and mashout. You'll be very happy you did. If you want to do a protein rest, you can, but I recommend using an infusion to step up from protein to beta, so that your protein rest doesn't go too long. Make your protein rest thick (water/grain about 1), and you can get your ratio on the beta rest up to as high as 1.5, especially with the double decoction to come.

I highly, highly, highly recommend reading Bavarian Helles, by Dornbusch. If you want to get into any sort of Bavarian style, it'll be the best $10 you can spend. I recommend buying it, rather than borrowing it, as it will be a valuable resource on your bookshelf. Horst has some strong opinions about certain things, but the information in those pages is terrific.

Carapils is fine, but you be careful with it. You won't need the melanoidin, if you do the decoction. Keep your hops noble, and remember that Helles isn't about the hops. It's about the balance and grain character.


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Old 11-28-2009, 04:38 PM   #6
CharlosCarlies
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Thanks guys!

I've been meaning to get some brewing books, so I'll definitely have to order that one.

Quote:
Keep your hops noble
Would you ditch the Northern Brewer then? I was originally going to go w/ Tettnang or Saaz, but since Helles uses mostly bittering additions (is this correct?) I figured subbing wouldn't be a huge huge deal.

 
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:58 PM   #7
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97.5% German Pilsener malt, 2.5% Cara-pils, for an OG of around 1.048
Do a Hochkurz step-mash (~141°F for ~45 min., 158°F for ~30 min, mash-out)... either decoction or step-temp have both done well for me. In fact, the taste difference between these has not been noticeable for me.
Boil 90 min.
21 IBUs any German noble-type hop at 60 min.
I like to add a smidge of hops at flame-out to give it a touch of aroma.

Cool it as cold as you can get it before pitching... preferrably ~50°F.
Pitch 2 packets (per ~5 gallons) of Saflager W-34/70, rehydrated and cooled down to ~50°F.
Ferment at 48-50°F, do diacetyl rest if you want to after the krausen starts to fall, slowly cool down to near lagering temps, rack to secondary, lager for 6 weeks, bottle or keg.

I have Dornbusch's book and have read it several times. IMO, there is some misinformation in there, but it's a good read and a good reference. Just don't take every detail as ultimate authority on the style.
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Old 11-30-2009, 11:00 AM   #8
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I would skip any sort of decoction, put your energy into pitching an enourmous amount of yeast, at the proper temperature. You didn't mention any of this in your recipe, and these are the most important details.

The dried saflager W 34/70 is the same as the liquid yeast you mentioned, but two packets for 5 gallons is not enough IMO. If you go with the pitching rate recommended by Fermentis for 9C you're looking at more like 5 packets. I've used two packets before and the beer tasted like an ale. When I repitched the yeast, it was as clean as a whistle, and one of the best lagers i've brewed.

That said, the 830 makes a very good beer too, it's just making a big enough starter that's a PITA.

Recipe looks good apart from that, I would maybe tone down the Munich just a little though. Also the OG is very low, this will be a very light tasting Helles.
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
The dried saflager W 34/70 is the same as the liquid yeast you mentioned
Cool I was wondering if this was the case. I <3 dry yeast, so I'll almost certainly go that route. Mr Malty is showing three 11.5g packets. You think that would be enough? OG isn't that high.

Quote:
Also the OG is very low, this will be a very light tasting Helles.
Yeah this was kind of the idea because this beer will be for a lot of BMC drinkers too, but we'll see...I might bump it up anyways.

 
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:19 PM   #10
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It depends on your ferment temp, check the spec sheet. I'm not entirely convinced by mrmalty's calculator when it comes to dried yeast as it doesn't take into account temperature (although I always refer to it for liquid starters).

http://www.fermentis.com/FO/pdf/HB/E..._W-3470_HB.pdf
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